Matricentric feminism - the need for feminism to recognise the experience of mothers

In pregnancy a woman's brain make enormous changes, this cannot be replicated by men.

That's because women are socialised to speak with higher voices. Men can easily speak to their babies using a higher voice. They choose not too

Yes, watch lots of cat videos made by men - they use a higher pitch voice when talking to cats!

Men choose to do lots of things and choose not to do lots of things.

Personally, I think full equality involves men taking on 50% of the tasks currently done by mothers, rather than motherhood as something particularly feminine and female being venerated.

*creativity of the workforce

The way we work is not actually particularly productive TBH. We would be more productive if we worked fewer hours with more breaks and if we made more use of the natural skills, initiative and creativity and if we wasted less time on management bullshit.

Finally caught up on this very interesting thread!
I think there are a lot of western society issues at play here, maybe not specifically western but that's what I'm familiar with.

I also think that capitalist/socialist/communist is too simplistic. Patriarchy transcends them all.

I think that posters touching on our society's value of children is getting close to the point. I think that can be extrapolated to our value of family.

I really liked the post by slightlyglittermaned

*That aside, I am less interested in the childcare choices of the wealthy and more interested in why so much effort goes in to keeping the world of children and work so separate.

Some is due to quite reasonable legislation to protect young children from exploitation. But the sheer outrage and horror on some threads about women taking their babies in to work is more than practicality - it is enforcing a cultural norm that children should remain separated from the world of work. Who benefits from the strength of that prohibition?*

Yes! The compartmentalised and institutionalised nature of our society. Shove the small ones into childcare/school institutions, shove the able bodied ones to produce as efficiently as possible, shove the mums away in their own homes or mums groups, shove the old ones somewhere out of the way. Nary shall the age groups mingle.

Sorry, tired, sick and incoherent... will come back and try again later...

Just remembered a whole loaf of stuff on what psychologists called ‘motherease’
A sort of prosody that women used when caring for babies - that sing song baby talk - which helps children start to contstruct language.

(Rusty old psych degree not a total waste of time )

Great conversation.
I have chosen to SAHM. We are actually better off because I can focus on living frugally, we don't have costs related to commuting/childcare/my work wardrobe and no stress means we don't need holidays or takeaways etc.
I too resent the idea that because I have a good job I must hand over care to a low status woman and get a (woman) cleaner.
To me this feels like a feminist choice. We are financially comfortable though, with no mortgage (older parents, live in 'rough' area). A main motivation is that I'd have to do the bulk of wife work anyway if we both worked. My partner tries but he just has no idea about the things you need to think about. He has a chronic illness which flares with stress so it's easier all around.
I have to say though that the main factor enabling all this is seven years family leave from my 'high status' job. We have a woman dominated sector and a powerful union, but I think the union is about to trade in this leave option in its neoliberal reincarnation...

I can't be the only outlier whose hormones did them no good whatsoever either as a baby or in selecting a partner nor even as a mum.

Re the specific talking thing my sister has it, I see it in action, like with a lot of things re parenting I had to learn it was important, learn how to do it and focus on putting it into practice.

I’m being assessed re ASD, DD has a diagnosis. I have had to put a lot of effort into communication all my life.

I have always looked for guidance in science, created sets of rules to govern social situations and observed and refined.

None of that stuff associated with femininity comes naturally to me. I believe I have gotten quite good at a lot of things I am not naturally skilled at and so I generally lack patience re arguments that men ‘can’t’.

I think it’s probably reasonable to assume that the biological factors diminish in importance over time and that they are not so important that a healthy child can not be raised if the mother dies in childbirth. If it were the case then society would have been completely fucked by high levels of maternal mortality.

Can someone explain to me what the love hormone is?

Is it the same hormone for men and women?

I speak with a low voice. Speak up I'm often told. As in, speak higher

Men ignore their newborn cry or if they are awoken by it expect that both parents equally take care of it, as in it was me last night, now it's your turn.

That's because women are socialised to speak with higher voices. Men can easily speak to their babies using a higher voice. They choose not too.

A quick google tells us there are studies and articles going back to 2007 debunking the women are more verbal myth.

There is nothing in science that supports the claim that failing in love is 100% hormonal.

These kinds of views often come from misrepresentations of science in media and books promoting an agenda.

Just as men view a group made up of 30% women to be mostly women so do they view women talking far less than men do as women talking most of the time.
Zombie lies never die because men never stop telling them to one another.

Women are all over the world subject to sexism. Socialisation.

Do you see how simplistic that is?

Of course the actual reality is highly likely to be that all human beings and all human behaviours are the result of a complicated relationship between biology and the environment.

We are not really at a point where we can start teasing out these complex inter-relationships.

are women genuinely more verbal though - im often curious as this is a well know fact and there seems to be evidence of it but TV and radio is full of men talking, parliaments full of men talking, men seem to have endless work meetings just talking away, yet on mat leave I could be quite isolated and have no one to talk to at all

Hormones have a role in sexual attraction. That is very different from choosing someone to partner with long term. That heady hormonal attraction wears off, and then it is about real being in love and sexual attraction. Which is why so many relationships who don't have kids to keep them together, fail at this stage.
And there are plenty of mums with adopted kids who love them completely.

Falling in love is 100% a hormonal event.

Women are, the world over and in all languages, on average more verbal than men. Biology.

I should have refreshed! Tinycitrus said what I think too.