Matricentric feminism - the need for feminism to recognise the experience of mothers

I remember the old school radfems using. They were pretty much told that their struggle had been to get out of the home into the workforce and now that battle had been won it was time to talk about another, new issue. Which turned out to be sex work.

Never radfems supporting prostitution - it is still very much a radfem area of concern. Perhaps it was just confusing the way you wrote that? Or do you sincerely believe radfems ever thought that way?

Yy... I think about all that every time I see a Tena lady ad! FFS!!

I thought I'd achieved equality until I had a tiny, barely noticeable really, infant... It was a shock. Motherhood is when inequality kicks in. However, things can be done.

I came here to say that. I am in a men - dominated field, and felt that we were doing almost ok until I had a child. And then it hit.

And I agree things can be done with being considerate to the needs of both mothers and children. For example, paternity leave becoming the norm, organising society so new mothers are not being left in total isolation with only mindless babygroups to occupy them, and improved health care for women.

On the last topic, I am absolutely shocked by how little research backed information is on the topic of childbirth and post partum health. It is taken as "normal" that a huge fraction of women will go through half their lives mildly incontinent; simple questions like "how safe is it to attempt a breach birth at this particular hospital" are answered with "this is very hard to tell", and the amount of absolute total rubbish that HCPs regularly spurt out to women on the topic of pregnancy, birth, post partum care and breasfeeding is ASTOUNDING. I can't believe we have antviral drugs and can keep HIV under control 30 years after it appeared, but cannot stop women pissing themselves or having painful sex for the rest of their lives just because they chose to have a totally unnecessary luxury of having a baby.

Argh... I get all uncomfortable about praise! But thank you all who have appreciated my posts!

offred Everything you’ve written really resonates with me.
Motherhood is intrinsic to being a woman and intrinsic to being a human, the two shouldn’t be separate.
Sorry, not very articulate as very tired but wanted to say how meaningful and important i think the post is. Thanks OP

Yyy Offred

*It is refusing to examine the structural limitations that constrain our choices that is the unfeminist part.

Yes - so we are?

Apparently all deeply unfeminist and a bad example.

It is refusing to examine the structural limitations that constrain our choices that is the unfeminist part.
Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women. The fact that different women have different ideas about how to achieve that goal should neither surprise nor offend women. And yet it does seem to.

Yes Sakura. She was a different voice on the feminism threads and always very thoughtful.

Tiny, I think you are talking about Sakura.

Ineedacupofteadesperately absolutely.

These men shaped holes don't suit men on a personal or emotional level.
They do suit men in pursuit of power or money.
Otherwise it is a hard slog.

My OH is in one of those professions where hours are long, unpredictable, he can't down tools at 5.30pm, he is expected to drop everything at a moments notice.

Totally incompatable with parenthood unless having another parent to take up the slack.

Which I did.

But his fathering has suffered as a result.

Having two of us in similar work roles ( and my job was equally demanding in terms of time and unpredictability) would mean our children hardly seeing either of us. We need a 25 hour working week for everyone.

As it turns out jacking in my career was one of the best possible decisions I made- my life has taken some amazing turns- I never did get back into that man shaped hole.

My dad genuinely thought that he could be entirely absent from my childhood and then enjoy a relationship with me when he retired...

I’m not interested.

I think TBH that ‘giving up the power of motherhood’ is often an issue with women.I do wonder if women had power in any other arena whether this would be quite such an issue.

Agree entirely, and with the rest of your post Offred. I desperately wanted children, and struggled with infertility, but I have been surprised by the way it has constrained and limited my choices - yes to what you say about lack of choice.

I think men benefit from the power dynamic but ultimately they still have to perform a role.

A man’s role is higher status, provides a man with more security but the cost is a relationship with his children and often with his wife/partner now too.

I do know that lots of men, my father is one, dont realise that giving in to ‘the anxiety to provide’ when a DC is born has the natural consequences of children not having a relationship with them and wives leaving them. Men by and large also don’t realise that the consequence of being socialised into thinking that it’s women that have to think about responsibility and consequences means that they won’t find out the consequences are shitty until the thing happens.

If in our struggle for equality we are simply squeezing ourselves into man shaped holes then it is no equality at all.

This. I think this shows itself most starkly when it comes to breastfeeding. It's pretty impossible to have a normal breastfeeding relationship with your baby and work.

And I don't think that the way society is set up particularly benefits normal men either (working increasingly long hours on increasingly insecure contracts), only the ones who are in charge pulling the strings.

Ha ha! No! It would not happen!

I know a woman who tells the story that her ex-husband had to attend a job interview on one of the days he had their baby. He couldn't find anyone to look after the baby, so took it with him to the interview. He got the job, with everyone congratulating him on what a wonderful father he was going to be. Can you imagine that happening to a woman? Taking her baby to a job interview being a positive tick in the recruitment process?

I think TBH that ‘giving up the power of motherhood’ is often an issue with women.

I do wonder if women had power in any other arena whether this would be quite such an issue.

We all have our own personal views about motherhood. For me I never wanted children and I certainly never wanted to be forced into the role of ‘mother’. This does affect my views on the whole thing.

I think lib fem has kind of toxified choice by making it all choosey choice and every choice is a choice and therefore ‘yay women!’ but choice is at the heart of this really, just it’s actually across the board for women lack of choice.

The very luckiest of women will have been able to make the choice they would want because both their economic status allowed it AND their male partners actually supported it.

This is really, really wrong. That even the very most fortunate still need their male partner to decide to support their choice. This doesn’t work the other way round really, men by and large are free to perform their gendered role as provider or not based entirely on their choices.

Obviously with the exception of single fathers when women absent themselves...

If in our struggle for equality we are simply squeezing ourselves into man shaped holes then it is no equality at all.

That is one of the arguments I remember the old school radfems using. They were pretty much told that their struggle had been to get out of the home into the workforce and now that battle had been won it was time to talk about another, new issue. Which turned out to be sex work.

tiny- I don't know of that woman but I agree with the sentiments.

If in our struggle for equality we are simply squeezing ourselves into man shaped holes then it is no equality at all.

Years ago there was a lovely feminist poster who argued very eloquently about the power of women as mothers.

Her view was they women should be careful
Not to concede this power to men, that it should be resisted and celebrated.

Icsnt rememner her name - she was Japanese I think. Some of the other posters might remember her.

TheNavigator yes- I am a carer for my elderly mother and I have older teen/university children.

It falls to me as my OHs parents are dead.

I think an issue for me as an older woman is that this generation is the first to be almost guaranteed to have elderly parents with complex health needs, due to medical advances. My grandparents died in their 70s and early 80s.

My female colleagues at work frequently have demanding teenagers (this generation expect/need ongoing financial and emotional support while at University) and needy parents. One colleague won't retire as she knows it will condemn her to full time care for her parent, at least with a full time job she can keep some 'her' time.

Just as parenting seems to fall mainly to women, so does elderly care - often when women have just managed to claw back some sort of (albeit) diminished career. I cannot see a way forward as this will only get worse as more people live longer (and then develop dementia).

I have long since stopped trying to defend my choices.

The workplace is anti women. Western society is patriarchal in structure the whole set up sucks.

I gave up work and career to be a SAHM. I breastfed for 7 years in total. I cared for my children without nursery or paid help.

Apparently all deeply unfeminist and a bad example.

@Offred 👏🏻