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Original poster

Lesbian gets banned from LGBTQ+ messaged board for trying to talk about the lesbophobia in trans activism

91 replies

LostLesbian380 · 26/05/2018 03:50

www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/8m6o53/its_time_to_talk_about_terf/

In case they delete it, this is the body of the original post:

Hey LGBTQ+ friends,

I'm sure many of you have heard the term "TERF," and assume that it means "someone who hates trans people." That's what I thought until a couple of weeks ago, when I got called a TERF for being homosexual rather than homogenderal. I am a lesbian and the way my sexual orientation functions is toward female people only. Transgender women are valid, but they unfortunately have a mix of male and female sex characteristics, and for me, I am only sexually attracted to female sex characteristics. Growing up, I tried very hard to be bisexual; I didn't want to be gay, I wanted to have a husband and a normal life, and realizing that I physically could not experience attraction to male people was very difficult for me to accept. I finally came to terms with it- but unfortunately now, I am experiencing a lot of homophobia from the unlikeliest of places: within LGBTQ+ itself, specifically, the QT.

Which is why I want to have a conversation with y'all. I am a supporter of trans rights; I have signed up to volunteer in a name change clinic in law school, took a Transgender Studies class in undergrad, have many transgender friends, and overall support trans people having full civil rights. I also support trans people being treated with MUCH more dignity and respect than is standard in today's society. I want to be an ally to trans people, and I do still consider myself an ally to trans people in general- but what I have an issue with is the TRA (trans rights activism) movement, which seems to have gone off the rails. One of the TRA movement's primary tactics is using the term "TERF" to shut down intellectual discourse. Over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that people who do consider trans women to be women are being called a TERF, at ever-increasing rates. These are just a few of the reasons I've seen female people get called a "TERF" by TRAs:

-Saying there are objective physical differences between trans women and biological women (which does not invalidate anyone's identity btw)

-Being a lesbian (exclusive homosexual attraction)

-Acknowledging male and female socialization as distinct experiences (even if a trans woman's childhood doesn't resemble "boyhood" it is not "girlhood;' it is something else entirely that is totally valid and deserving of respect and compassion)

-Being uncomfortable with penises and penis-talk in lesbian communities

-Being uninterested in dating someone with both male & female sex characteristics

-Talking about biological female experiences and anatomy

-Expressing any hesitancy about self-ID/worries that biological men will take advantage of it

So it's time to have a conversation. When ya'll talk about "punching TERFs" or other violence towards "TERFs," you are talking about people like me- an ally to trans people who wants to remain an ally, but is feeling incredibly alienated by the TRA movement which seeks to erase my sexuality by saying lesbians can be attracted to both sexes. Ls and Gs probably have a deeper innate understanding of why this is so painful for a homosexual person to hear. I am hoping to have a productive conversation with LGBTQ+ people on this subreddit to discuss this issue, and I ask that everyone approach the topic with empathy, care, and respect.

The lesbian who made this post got attacked, belittled, demeaned, and banned within an hour.

OP posts:

Original poster

LostLesbian380 · 27/05/2018 04:50

LaSqrrl, I believe I have hit peak trans already and become gender critical in the past 3-4 weeks. Specifically, what did it for me was a variation of cotton ceiling rhetoric that claimed that it is "ok" for lesbians to be unattracted to penises, but that it is definitely "transphobic" to not be attracted to a post-op trans woman.

As if an inverted penis could in any way resemble a biological vagina to a LESBIAN! Just because it might have some superficial similarities (if the surgery is amazing) and is fuckable, does not mean it is the same thing as a vagina. It does not have the same function, it does not have a clitoris wrapping around the vaginal muscles, it does not have vaginal secretions. Maybe it could fool a man, but it's ludicrous to insist that any lesbian who sees the difference between a "neovagina" (inverted penis) and a biological vagina is actually a transphobe.

The post I made in the LGBTQ subreddit used some language that was meant to appeal to non-gender critical people, but my personal views are that transwomen are not female and never can be, and transwomanhood is an experience that is different from both manhood and womanhood, and is equally valid as a third and different human experience.

OP posts:

MipMipMip · 26/05/2018 22:35

Babel! I'm shocked at you. Yes, offering tea is sa proper British welcome. But this is mumsnet.

Hello Lost, welcome. Have some .

gendercritter · 26/05/2018 21:45

Welcome op! I'm also not a parent. There are lots of people here who aren't. I came here because if some negative press coverage 10 years ago (I was nosy) and stayed when I found it was a forum full of very clever, interesting women.

Original poster

LostLesbian380 · 26/05/2018 21:31

PMed you Blythe! Thanks, it seems like most “lesbian” spaces online are run by transbians so I appreciate it :)

OP posts:

BlytheByName · 26/05/2018 16:00

Hello Lost lesbian!
I'm sorry you were banned for speaking the truth.
I have been a member of a lesbian messageboard for about ten years. It went very quiet lately but I've started posting again and talking about the cotton ceiling, self id and lesbian erasure.

Its been really gratifying to see lesbians talking and mostly agreeing that we have a very big problem. There is some dissent but the point is we are not being silenced. I don't know if its because we don't have male mods there ..
Lostlesbian if you want to know the name of it, pm me. I'm loathe to put the name on here in case it attracts trans activists.

Terfulike · 26/05/2018 15:59

I follow gayterfboy. He has a good grasp of the issues.

Lesbian gets banned from LGBTQ+ messaged board for trying to talk about the lesbophobia in trans activism

Terfulike · 26/05/2018 15:55

Very interesting Terf and serf

TerfAndSerf · 26/05/2018 15:41

There are gay men pondering this very question.

Spindelina · 26/05/2018 15:19

Hello and welcome!

On the subject of what is transphobic: I was at a presentation at work last week where the male speaker was standing in for a female colleague. He introduced himself as “not X, even at the weekend” chortle chortle not quite with a nudge and a wink, but not far off. That is casual transphobia, and no more acceptable than casual sexism or racism or homophobia or...

It’s a shame that we’ve lost the distinction between transphobia and asking sensible questions.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 26/05/2018 15:13

Welcome, LostLesbian. I'm straight but went on my first LGB march many years ago at the age of 14. It was the cotton ceiling back in 2012 that was my first peak trans moment. It enrages me. The whole transbian thing is rape culture.

Terfulike · 26/05/2018 14:40

Upstart crow
That's hilarious!
If you take this to its logical conclusion, you could have two male-bods in one bedroom having their lesbian relationship, and then, in the next room, two f-bods having gay sex with perhaps a third room, where Stacey m-bod has heterosexual relations with Kevin f-bod. Later they all have dinner and congratulate each other on how they've chucked all the cis-terfs off all the internetchat rooms in the world.

LangCleg · 26/05/2018 14:28

I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to be here as I’m not a mother or British, but I appreciate hearing that I’d be welcome here.

Welcome, LostLesbian. As everyone else said, you don't need to be a parent or British to post here. If you have something to say about sex and gender as they pertain to women - whatever your opinion is - you are welcome here.

Personally, I feel the social pressure being exerted on lesbians to be homegenderal rather than homosexual to be very reminiscent of coercive control in domestic abuse situations. It's wrong and you shouldn't have to put up with it.

Cwenthryth · 26/05/2018 14:27

Welcome lostlesbian, or should that be foundlesbian now! I’m also not a mother. Have been here for over a decade now.

The block/ban thing is just massively counterproductive, I think, it leaves them in their own echo chambers. I was blocked on Twitter when chatting to a transwoman who was complaining about TRA tactics giving all trans people a bad name, she was talking about being abused and attacked, and I asked her where that abuse came from and the reply was “you when you call me male” and block. I had genuinely been empathising and trying to offer support and hadn’t gendered her any which way. You can’t win sometimes.

Imchlibob · 26/05/2018 14:11

You are very welcome indeed op.

I don't know of anyone on MN who actually genuinely wants trans people to have anything less than full human rights, full respect for the lifestyle choices and the freedom to be, wear and aspire to whatever they choose.

Generally all we object to is having our thoughts and speech policed.

Telling Everyone Real Facts:
Men cannot actually become women - of course they should be free to wear dresses, makeup etc but male anatomy is still male anatomy.
Women cannot become men - of course they should be free to present as such but female anatomy remains female.

It is deeply worrying how homophobic the trans narrative has become.

Wanderabout · 26/05/2018 13:50

Welcome Lost !

LaSqrrl · 26/05/2018 13:37

I'm sorry lesbians are being treated so badly. If TRA's really believed they were all women they'd have sex with each other.

A few (sort of) do. But they are the transsexuals. I really don't see how their internalised homophobia is eradicated by same-sex, pretendbian, unions though.

LaSqrrl · 26/05/2018 13:35

Welcome Lost

I think you will find that all the GC women don't want harm to befall trans, however, the rapetastic 'cotton ceiling' and demands to enter all female spaces and of course, the constant rape/death threats, does wear our empathy a little thin.

Apparently saying 'no' to the male-born is some kind of invitation to threats and violence. Rather like all other males really.

You will hit Peak Trans in about 5, 4, 3, 2...

UpstartCrow · 26/05/2018 13:25

You're welcome here @LostLesbian380

I'm sorry lesbians are being treated so badly. If TRA's really believed they were all women they'd have sex with each other.

Baroquehavoc · 26/05/2018 13:13

Why aren't gay men being bullied and excluded for not wanting relationships with female-bodied people?

There are attempts, but there is something different about the dynamics of a femaled bodied person asking/demanding something of a male bodied person and that of a male bodied person asking/ demanding something of a female bodied person. (Sorry about that sentence, if only there was a way of making it more succinct)

I think it's the ability to say no.

TERFragetteCity · 26/05/2018 12:58

Welcome OP.

You don't have to be a mother, british or even a woman to post here.

I am not surprised by their response. When you consider that so many 'female' groups are now being infiltrated by men, it is obvious that any woman speaking out is going to get piled on. They infiltrate, make it all about them so that the actual women just end up leaving.

jedenfalls · 26/05/2018 12:57

Fucking hell. That response is fuckng scary.

As pp said, it is word.for.word the standard How Dare You Reject Me speech wome have heard since Time immemorial.

OP. Your post is intelligent and well written. Thank you and welcome. I’m so glad you found us.

Deathgrip · 26/05/2018 12:50

Their insistence that lesbians must sleep with them is just further evidence that their only care is being accepted as truly female by women. Do you see them giving straight men the same sort of shit? Of course not.

nauticant · 26/05/2018 12:49

Try not to take it too badly, and see it for what it is. Many transbians are rapey misogynistic men who've realised that lesbians are the most vulnerable community available to them.

Deathgrip · 26/05/2018 12:49

Really glad you’ve found us here. I am horrified by the sexually abusive behaviour being pushed on lesbians by this movement (I am straight but have seen this brewing for a while). Unfortunately this is what happens when a movement tries to separate from penises from maleness - you become a bigot if you won’t accept and service a penis that’s attached to someone who must be called a woman.

I’ve always been a huge supporter of trans rights and continue to be one. I will not stand for the ridiculous violent and abusive behaviour being aimed at anyone who tries to have a discussion about this.

Bowlofbabelfish · 26/05/2018 12:47

How interesting. They are too self centred to realise that every woman they drive here will be welcomed in a civilised manner and allowed to speak their mind.

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