Questions for TRAs or Transpeople on here

aaaarrrrggghh I am talking in legal terms.

A non-biological mother who is married to the biological mother is the child's legal parent.

A trans woman with a GRC is legally a woman despite being born male

Both are legal fiction and I think both are fine.

I know a lot of people think the GRA should be abolished so trans people cannot legally change their gender. I disagree.

I think if this happened it would pave the way for rights being removed from same sex couples and families.

I know a lot of GC feminists are gay friendly but a lot of anti trans activists are also homophobic. Removing rights from trans people would be giving people like this power and a voice. Is that really what you want?

I genuinely don't understand that toilet sign, daimbars. Who are those three figures meant to represent? A woman with baby, a man and a female child? Or what?

In our blissfully gender-non-conforming future these figures could be of any sex at all, surely?

Woman and baby, transwoman and baby, dress-wearing man and baby, dress-wearing transman and baby, trouser-wearing woman, transman, man, trouser-wearing transwoman, male child in dress, female child in dress....

And isn't that rather the point? That these toilets (or whatever they are) are for everyone?

@jellyfrizz - I cannot see how calling a transwoman a woman could suggest non feminine conforming females are not women?

I mean.. I would not say I am exclusively femme? Yeah sure I can be.. but I am just as comfortable in skinny jeans and a tshirt as I am in a dress.

@LangCleg / @Baroquehavoc - All about perspective, calling a transwoman a man is also insulting. But quite right, its not about unlocking an achievement or levelling up. But at the end of the day, I can't stop you referring to me he instead of she but ultimately it doesn't affect me.

daimbars - but the analogy is not really helpful.

You're not actually saying that you are your daughters biological parent though are you. The trans ideology if we apply your analogy to it is saying that you are as a fact your daughters biological mother - and it is doing this by some weird mush up of the meaning of "biological mother" to include someone who feels like they are the biological mother. Can you see how it doesn't really cross over?

As for legal fiction - many posters often comment that they are happy with the existing "legal fiction" for people who have fully transitioned. By that is not what the new ideology is doing.

This also suggests that woman is some sort of achievement, if someone behaves or undertakes some challenge well, they are rewarded and become a woman.

Yes. It's not like levelling up, for crissakes. How bloody insulting.

To call a trans woman a man undermines the effort and struggle many trans women go through to gain some level of acceptance.

This also suggests that woman is some sort of achievement, if someone behaves or undertakes some challenge well, they are rewarded and become a woman. When in reality it's just females aging.

Yes carry on battering that straw man Daim.

To call a trans woman a man undermines the effort and struggle many trans women go through to gain some level of acceptance.

Can you see then how calling a trans woman a woman could suggest that females who do not conform to femininity are not women?

Using the word 'woman' does not work. A different word like 'femme' would be much more accurate and would include males and females who present in a feminine way.

Mxyzptl re the toilet image you would have to take that up with Center Parcs.

Erishkigal my DD's birth certificate is legal fiction. It lists both me and my wife, two women, as my daughter's parents. A biologically impossibility but I'm really glad this legal fiction exists and I would be upset if it was taken away.

A birth certificate is a social construct. You still don't seem able to comprehend the difference between biology and paperwork.

A problem most transactivists have.

^^ For females only, of course.

My mother could be legally fired on getting married

It wasn't just 'could be'. It was automatic dismissal on getting married, in many jobs.
When I was first working, my organisation's policy was a little better than that. It was automatic dismissal followed by immediate re-employment as a different person.

I genuinely don't understand that toilet sign, daimbars. Who are those three figures meant to represent?
A woman with baby, a man and a female child? Or what?

“I think there needs to be a 3rd space or they can change with others of their own sex.”

This argument comes up again and again. The point I am making is most newly built places are gender neutral. Both swimming pools in Brighton & Hove have gender neutral changing rooms with lockable cubicles and I think a lot of cities are the same? This picture wasn't taken in Brighton - it's the Woburn Forest Center Parcs! If you look around you will see the third space you want is already here.

I'll just apologise now for being very wordy here.

"There's therefore no need for anyone to be 'critical' of another person's gender as it doesn't impact them in any way."

I am not critical of another person's gender. I am critical of the whole concept of gender. A "person's gender" is more accurately their gender presentation - choosing to adopt the stereotypical appearance of feminine or masculine. But gender itself is the idea that a female is feminine and must adhere to the current feminine stereotypes of their location (since those stereotypes vary over time and by location). Or that a male is masculine and ditto.

These stereotypes dictate not only external appearance but also internal behaviour and personality, e.g. a woman must be nurturing and submissive and a man must be emotionally undemonstrative and dominant. Which is all utter bollocks. None of us are those stereotypes. We may conform to parts of it, partly through personal inclination but also largely through grooming from day 1 by our society.

And since we conform to gender largely through this grooming/indoctrination, the idea that gender does not impact us in any way is nonsense. We are all hugely impacted by gender. It restricts what is considered acceptable behaviour for a woman (and for a man) and as such restricts our entire lives. And gender is a hierarchy, with women on the bottom.

It's easy to forget how new women's rights and freedoms are. My mother could be legally fired on getting married, and had to have her husband's permission to open a bank account or enter into a hire purchase agreement to buy furniture. And it's easy to forget, too, that some men frankly resent women having any autonomy, and see the current situation as an opportunity to destroy it all. They might make all the right sounds about being for trans rights, but it's just a convenient tool for them to work against women's rights. They don't give a stuff for trans rights or trans people. They're just human shields to hide behind.

So anytime someone pooh-poohs my silly little womanly fears, forgive me if I smell a rat. A feckin' big male rat.

As a lesbian feminist , I have a few friends who are just now women or men , ,most wont even post on here

we accept them as being who they are , none would agree from what they have told me about these Activists

but me and my G/F avoid baby dykes with similar silly ideas in the Fox , our fav watering hole hence the handle

daimbars I'm agreeing with LaSqurrl and co-signing her very polite request that you please stop using lesbians as part of your argument. "Who on earth does it offend?"' Lesbians. LaSqurrl and I , for a start. So that's two of us, and already enough reason for you to stop it.

How you respond will be very telling. You could argue the point and insist on continuing, regardless of how we feel, or you could simply find another way to express yourself without needlessly offending people.

[Thank you, in advance, if you opt for the latter]

@Mxyzptlk - I haven’t really ever broached the subject with that many of the friends I have who are also transwomen, I don’t have many friends that are trans. But I do know that a trans woman I am quite close friends with shares my opinion. Maybe not a mirror image.. but she has mentioned she knows she’s biologically male.

I would imagine most if not all of the ‘moderate’ (if such a thing were a think when comparing to TRAs) trans people would not deny their biological sex.

@daimbars

I’m getting messages every day from GC women in Brighton. I am pro-trans: trans people deserve to live as fully participants in society. However I am deeply concerned with the silencing if women’s voices and the way that children who don’t conform to gender are being pigeonholed and sent down treatment paths that may well be unnecessary in the longer term.

Brighton is also a very LGB friendly city but I find aspects of trans activism deeply homophobic.

“I think there needs to be a 3rd space or they can change with others of their own sex.”

I completely agree with you. I also think the reporting of correct stats, female sports, etc is important and if the GRA was repealed then that would be possible. At present it is not because someone who has a GRC will be included in those things. For example, a highly successful man who has had no surgery whatsoever, but has been ‘living as a woman for two years’ (which in reality could only consist of wearing skirts and make-up) could be included in the stats on female pay. Or a man who has lowered his natural hormone count by taking female hormones could complete in female sports. There are many other examples. This is why I think there are so many reasons why the GRA really has to go. Instead they should have their own stats, their own sports teams etc.

I really agree with the OP - that's why I don't subscribe to the line of thinking 'only the 'penis-free' can join women's spaces'. I believe SRS should be discouraged as well as other self-harming practices associated with dysphoria, so I take a hard line:

NO males calling themselves female. None. Never at any point.

Because no 'transition' is or can be meaningful- ever. It is living a lie, rejecting oneself. It is inauthentic.

However I would love to live in a world where rigid gender just crumbles. TBH in my 20s that's how it started to look - all gender-bending, creativity and fun - before the deranged ideology of 'trans' spoiled it all.

Self-acceptance, self-love and love and acceptance of others as they are too... That is progress.

Another question for trans people - Why is there no campaign for trans changing rooms and toilets?

STOP USING OUR BATHROOMS AND CHANGING ROOMS IF YOU HAVE A PENIS!!! It's rude, disrespectful, and not ok. Please stop trampling over our (women's) boundaries and forcing your way into our spaces.

I AM male.. I cannot change that biological fact. But I’m not a man.

Do many trans people view themselves that way, do you know?

Yes I think there was a thread on Twitter earlier about a trainee woman being forced to share accommodation with a man who had decided he was now a woman. This is unacceptable and has to be stopped.

I'm no longer OK with seeing TW in changing rooms etc. I was before but all this debate has changed my opinion. I think there needs to be a 3rd space or they can change with others of their own sex.

I would complain if a TW was in my gym changing rooms and would leave until they had gone.