I believe The Spectator is in danger of folding.

Honestly. It's so so limiting to only ever agree with people is you agree on everything. You have to listen to a variety of viewpoints, on all subjects - not just dismiss this person, because they're not left wing, or that person, because they're not feminist.

This is what's wrong with everything - tribalism. I'm so done with it.

Spoil away, LangCleg - no guilt from me. The point I’m trying to make (not very well I know) is specifically about people supporting right-wing organisations in the name of feminism, nothing to do with spoilt ballot papers. I do agree there is a terrible misogyny among left-wing men, apparently worse the further left you go. It is depressing that there’s no positive option, really, just less bad ones.

I have the Spectator, the New Statesman and The Economist delivered.

Has Sloth's head exploded at the notion that people can chose to expose themselves to a range of views and opinions??

The Spectator is really good.

Some excellent writers. Some are really funny. Deborah Moss' films reviews are brilliant and hilarious, Jeremy Clarks' Low Life column is some of the most beautiful and touching writing I've ever read.

There are some real 'I'm right wing and I don't care' types as well, and some old lefties. The mix and quality of writing is what makes it such a good read. I really look forward to getting it every week.
Oh and the cartoons are good.
And Mary off Gogglebox is the agony aunt for other posh people she's very funny.
The book reviews are the best I've found.
Julie Burchill writes for them!

And yes I'm a feminist.

Oh and I find Jordan Peterson interesting.

doesn’t have to mean promoting organisations or individuals or parties or whatever known for their anti-feminist ways, just because of self-ID?

Well, perhaps people think these people have something worth listening to?

The authoritarian left is as dangerous as the authoritarian right (and by that, I mean Nazis, not the Tory party) - Momentum and Labour are frighteningly close to the authoritarian left - shutting down debate and free speech, suppressing freedom of thought and critical thinking, and policing our use of language. This is dangerous.

The first centre or left-of-centre party to break against self-ID will get my vote. If none do, then I intend to spoil my ballot paper. And I won't be guilted out of that.

the knee jerk response of expel dissidents rather than debate issues. There is an authoritarian streak a mile wide in the Momentum faction of the LP which scares the shit out of me

Democratic centralism, which is pretty much the way Labour seem to be going, is not associated with good outcomes for women. Just look at the SWP.

Are the tories even collectively opposed to self-ID? Aren’t they basically the ones who’ve brought all this up? I suspect it will go through eventually, whoever is in charge.

Yes, Labour is a mess. But surely being critical of labour doesn’t have to mean promoting organisations or individuals or parties or whatever known for their anti-feminist ways, just because of self-ID?

Well it frustrates me to watch Momentum/Labour turn into some sort of Salem witch trial against gc women.

I've been watching them throwing gc women out of the party - instigated by a teenaged (at the time) trans CLP women's officer plus mates. I've been watching them write songs (Momentum/antifa beardy guys) about kicking women's teeth out. I've seen them shutting down free speech and free assembly. I've watched them put self ID into practice.

This turns me against ever voting Labour.

I really, really don't want these people in charge.

For me it goes way beyond self ID - self ID, general misogyny on the left, rampant anti-Semitism - but way beyond any of those individually, the repression of dissent and the knee jerk response of expel dissidents rather than debate issues. There is an authoritarian streak a mile wide in the Momentum faction of the LP which scares the shit out of me.

On the other hand, the Tories are genuinely letting people starve.

Modern politics is a festering shit-pit on both ends of the spectrum.

Especially left-wing people. They see gender critical feminists promoting Jordan Peterson or Jacob Rees Mogg or whoever and they don’t want to know. Many of those people could be allies. It frustrates me to see the debate and think about how it must look through the eyes of someone who knows nothing about it.

By the way, to those of you who are basically saying fuck all other social justice/feminist issues, self-ID is the ONLY thing that matters - this comes across really badly to potential converts to the cause. Really, really badly. This is actually a major reason why this attitude bothers me so much. I would also like public opinion to turn against self-ID, but the tone of the debate and the single-issue obsession displayed here and on twitter probably turns a lot of people off even thinking about it.

I bought the £12 for 12 issues subscription offer because I enjoyed hearing Isabel Hardman and Katy Balls talking about politics on their podcast (also Fraser Nelson - he doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the box but he has the world's most beautiful voice). But then I got the magazine and it was a sharp dose of Taki and Rod Liddle up the bum. Was pretty glad to cancel at the end of it!

Sigh. That is not what the conversation is about. She is free to vote as she wants. Yes I can and I will. I had a choice, Tory, Labour, Lib dems then later on an Independent which I didn't know about until I received a flyer. I fully intended voting Tory and I'll be damned if I'm going to shamed for that. I was voting against self ID first and foremost.

There is no way to write pro-woman policy if woman is undefined. This is a foundational battle and I will never, under any circumstances, vote for any party supporting self-ID of legal sex. It's that simple.

I’m not telling anyone to vote labour. I myself do not and have never voted labour. I’m also not telling anyone they can or can’t call themselves a feminist. Call yourself whatever you want.

Where will feminism be, if we can't define woman anymore, and man = woman, just because he says so.

The spectator isn't right wing. In the literal sense it is faurly centrist, or rather well balanced with a bit in each side. One would only see it a relatively right wing-relative to British polotics/World view in general which skews very far to the left at the moment. I don't read it regularly but there is nothing wrong with it (unlike most British publications), every now and then there will actually be something genuinely interesting in there that other publications haven't picked up on. I really do wish that you would all stop the if it isn't communist, or at least extreme socialist it must be right wing trope. Right wing is neoliberal/free market and deregulation which we don't really see in Britain much.

I do love the way every time I waver about walking away from the Labour Party, someone pops up on here with a patronising lecture or an attempt to guilt trip me.

I've been a Labour supporter for over 40 years. Do you seriously think I'd give up in a fit of pique? Or that I haven't thought of these arguments already?

Yes, we're being told who we can and can't vote for, if we still want to call ourselves feminists now.

Does anyone else want to tell me I'm doing feminism wrong? There's rather a lot of people seemingly wanting to tell me what to do at the moment...

Sigh. That is not what the conversation is about. She is free to vote as she wants.

A woman exercising her democratic right to vote

No Thorny, but Spontaneous said she was considering voting Tory at the last election.

Buying a subscription to The Spectator does not mean a vote for the Conservative party.