Guess how I got suspended from the Labour Party?

Lol super match.... if those things are done to a transwoman then it IS because of how they identify.

It shouldn’t be done to anyone but the point is it happens to women no matter how they identify and where it happens to transwomen it is happening as a direct result of identifying as part of the group that is subject to this crap.

Kudos my friend

to be fair I do see my trans colleague being mansplained at, talked over, undermined, undervalued.

So there are some experiences she has that are very similar to those we have. There is overlap.

But not the bio stuff obviously.

How do you know there aren't trans women that have had those things done to them because they have been perceived as the female sex both socially and bodily?

That’s not the points she’s making. She’s saying that regardless of how one presents there are some things that can ONLY happen to biological women. Being fired when you’re pregnant for example.

Hum, I seem to increasingly not 'living as a woman' as I get older. I even put the bins out today.

And TIMs that genuinely pass that well are not that common.

That's not the point. It doesn't happen to women because of how we identify, it happens because we are female.

Being catcalled, sexually-assaulted, blamed for your rape, called "hysterical" for objecting to porn on a tshirt at a conference, ignored, and talked over in meetings. All of which are things done to you by others because of your female sex, not things done to you because of how you identify.

bd67th How do you know there aren't trans women that have had those things done to them because they have been perceived as the female sex both socially and bodily?

Just searched Twitter for David Lewis and terf. This was the only result.

One, and it didn't even directly call him a terf. Compare and contrast to the ManFriday chaps. I can't believe David hasn't even been mass reported to the police!

I am 29 pages late to this party but I just wanted to pop in and say a huge "Thank you" to you David. Whilst you may have been suspended hopefully the discussion of that will assist in shaking out how unworkable the policy is and the hypocrisy and misogyny of the labour party in dealing with this issue. I certainly feel you would have been much more representative of me than Lily Madigan is or has been.

The more men who are willing to self-identify as
women in order to shine a light on this issue the better because unfortunately it seems that women's voices have been drowned out and silenced in this "debate that is not allowed to happen".

Thank you!

Brilliant points by Hackmum.

Thank you David!

"That’s an inaccurate explanation of criminal law. The element is mens rea not intention.

Was trying to keep things simple. But yes the mental element of a crime is called the mens rea."

that was the least of your problems there....

David, if you're ever in London I'd love to buy you a drink. A feminine glass of wine on a Wednesday or a manly pint on any other day of the week.

Pippa Bunce's gender identity is bi-gendered which remains constant. However, her gender expression varies from day to day. She does not have a female identity so would not qualify for AWS or the role of women's officer in the Labour Party. She is also not able to change her legal gender under today's laws or under legal self id - and I doubt she would want to.

Which would then mean that Pippa Bunce, and anyone else who just chooses to look feminine sometimes or claims to have some "girl genes", would not be able to legally self id and thus would have no right to use women's changing rooms, toilets or any other women-only facilities?

I’m aware I’m getting more publicity on this because I’m perceived to be a man by society at large and it doesn’t sit well with me.

Any publicity on this is good. Yes it’d be lovely if people listened to us women but if people listened to us women then we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.

So crack on and don’t feel bad about it.

David, I have a question.
At any time in this debacle have you been called a TERF?
I ask because we are told that it is not a misogynistic term yet it only seems to be applied to women.

@ErrolTheDragon

What evidence would there be to show that somebody was or wasn't living as a woman?

What, in the 21st century U.K. constitutes 'living as a woman'? Other than making use of sex specific facilities, or doing things specific to female biology (menstruating, gestating, giving birth, breast feeding, having hot flushes.....) there is surely nothing now which is more than a mere stereotype.

Being catcalled, sexually-assaulted, blamed for your rape, called "hysterical" for objecting to porn on a tshirt at a conference, ignored, and talked over in meetings. All of which are things done to you by others because of your female sex, not things done to you because of how you identify.

That’s an inaccurate explanation of criminal law. The element is mens rea not intention.

Was trying to keep things simple. But yes the mental element of a crime is called the mens rea.

What evidence would there be to show that somebody was or wasn't living as a woman?

What, in the 21st century U.K. constitutes 'living as a woman'? Other than making use of sex specific facilities, or doing things specific to female biology (menstruating, gestating, giving birth, breast feeding, having hot flushes.....) there is surely nothing now which is more than a mere stereotype.

Thanks

It wasn't perfect but it was something

Why? Because the court looks at all the evidence and makes a judgment on whether the defendant is telling the truth or not.

What evidence would there be to show that somebody was or wasn't living as a woman?

Excellent work, Transplants

The PE letter was from me

Ireneony

I think the Rachel Dolezal comparison bears repeating again and again. I totally agree with you