Guess how I got suspended from the Labour Party?

Datun, and all,

I thought this subject deserved a wider audience;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3257027-To-think-its-Theresa-and-the-Tories-forever-now-weeps?watched=1

Or does the Labour Party intend to introduce limits of some sort, making it necessary to identify permanently as female/to have done so for a set length of time?

Yes I will be interested to learn about these limits and robust gatekeeping principles.

Can we start a movement to get more labour men to do this, "I'm Spartacus" style, in order to keep the pressure on and also to highlight that it really does take a man to speak up before anyone listens. Then perhaps people will see why we still need feminism.

they will just need to show that you were not sincere in your claim to have a female gender identity. Given the Spectator article and this thread, that won't be hard.

Plenty of people have identified as men for years before announcing that they are women. Some of them have joked about it. Eddie Izzard for one. Jenner for another. And the Bunce person swaps clothes and gender daily. I don't think we should criticise David for taking some time here to explore her new identity further, or even for being lighthearted about it.

Or does the Labour Party intend to introduce limits of some sort, making it necessary to identify permanently as female/to have done so for a set length of time?

Meanwhile, labour have reacted by changing the criteria from self identification, to men needing to appear to authenticate the reasons why they identify as women, is that right?

Wanting to help women is not a reason.

You have to really, really, either have the medical condition gender dysphoria, have a transvestite fetish, be a very serious part time cross dresser, or be gaming the system.

If you can show full commitment to any of that criteria, you're in?

But if you are an actual woman, and refuse to identify as such, you're out.

The Labour Party absolutely hate women. And they are only willing to promote like minded people.

This. All this. Excellent post, Datun.

There are a number of prominent trans people (of the "expanding the bandwidth of what it is to be female" variety) who sport full beards, who I suspect of trolling. However, they are widely lauded on social media and in the mainstream press. I fail to see how one can magically know that they are sincere and David is not.

Congratulations, David, on some very accurate expressions of womanhood. I too will be walking the dog in jeans and a t-shirt, with a little light Mumsnetting thrown in, as today's work has unexpectedly been cancelled.

Also who decides who is sincere? Plenty of people don't believe Madigan is sincere and have said as much, but they have been ignored. What is the difference? Who gets to decide whose gender identity is valid for the purposes of political representation and how? What are their measurable criteria if not by self-ID alone?

It's about belief. David doesn't really believe he is a woman. Some others apparently do. That's the basis of their policy.

But David believes he has as valid a female identity as other males who say they are female. So why should his identity be seen as any less valid than other males?

Sincerity.

Such and easy thing to prove. Not like those pesky chromosomes.

Yeah fermat I was there with that analogy too. Two thirds of a man and all that...

You are a star, David. I am sorry to hear of your suspension and hope that it is soon rescinded.

They will just need to show that you were not sincere in your claim to have a female gender identity

I don't have a female gender identity I just am a women by virtue of biology and all that.
What is a sincere female gender identity? Can someone define that? If I don't have one am I ineligible for AWS? If someone only identifies as a women part time like Pippa Bruce does that count?

So many questions so few answers.

If David had worn a skirt on Wednesdays, this would not be happening....

Men's beliefs, no matter how far-fetched, seem to trump reality an awful lot in legal situations, don't they?

I mean "I never exchanged words with the complainant prior to the incident, the room was dark, she was having sex with someone else when I entered, she was drunk to the stage of oblivion, yet her grunt led me to sincerely believe she consented." "Oh, that's all right then, sir - leave the court without a stain on your name."

Men's beliefs are to be taken at face value when they fit with what the patriarchy wants (though apparently up for question when they appear to be on the side of women, as has happened to David - btw, it being Wednesday, I salute you, madam!)

I am wondering, if legal self-id comes in, would you be willing to make a false statutory declaration and become legally female. My fellow MNers including at least one self-identified lawyer think nothing would happen to you. My money is on prison time, especially if you have previous.

Some of the ManFriday chaps have changed from female to male on their driving licences using self-id, completely openly and endorsed by the DVLA. So far no police officers have come knocking on their doors.

Is anyone else wondering how Labour will define "self-identifying woman"?

They can't define woman because that means male and female people according to Labour. So that's out.

They key is in the self-definition bit. David can of course self-define as he wishes, but now Labour is saying that it can reject his self-definition for the purposes of women's roles in the LP. What is the point of self-ID if another authority (Labour Party in this instance) can choose to dismiss it?

So David will be rejected as a self-identifying woman in the LP based on what exactly?

What is woman "enough" to be able to qualify for women's roles? What are the criteria and how are they measuring them? Where is their line in the sand? Can non-binary people qualify? What about gender-fluid people? What about those people who stood for election as a man and then qualify for women's positions (yes, Heather Peto)?

Gosh, Labour HQ have much to ponder.

And I await the next hilarious instalment. Where they are flailing around trying to pin womanly attributes onto absolutely everything except biology.

@IAmDavidLewis

So let me get this straight.

A man who wants to help women has applied for the job women's officer and been suspended.

Meanwhile, labour have reacted by changing the criteria from self identification, to men needing to appear to authenticate the reasons why they identify as women, is that right?

Wanting to help women is not a reason.

You have to really, really, either have the medical condition gender dysphoria, have a transvestite fetish, be a very serious part time cross dresser, or be gaming the system.

If you can show full commitment to any of that criteria, you're in?

But if you are an actual woman, and refuse to identify as such, you're out.

The Labour Party absolutely hate women. And they are only willing to promote like minded people.

Thank you, David. I know you were nervous. The easiest thing for them to do was simply not select you.

But no, yet again, they are perfectly willing to highlight their arrogance.

They think they can.

They are wrong.

'It's about belief'

Well indeed, but how do you prove whether someone has a belief or not. David has not said anywhere that he does not believe he is a woman on a Wednesday, afaik?

Many thanks David.

It's about belief. David doesn't really believe he is a woman. Some others apparently do. That's the basis of their policy.

And if that's not the most batshit crazy, totally subjective, completely impossible to judge from outside, sands shifting beneath my feet as I speak piece of policy insanity ever to dis-grace the annals of politics ever then I don't know what is.

But yeah, you have to believe. Truly. And then the fairies get their wings.

I am wondering, if legal self-id comes in, would you be willing to make a false statutory declaration and become legally female. My fellow MNers including at least one self-identified lawyer think nothing would happen to you. My money is on prison time, especially if you have previous.*

What would make it false? What does it even mean in the first place?

What is a female gender identity?

Good question. And one that you had better find the answer to, quick-sharp, because it's being forced upon you. From my recent encounters:
MN don't ask about your sex, they ask about your gender.
G-mail don't ask about sex, only gender.
The Government Gateway doesn't ask about sex, only gender.
That's just my experiences in the last few weeks. I'm sure there are loads of other examples that people can give.
Sex is being obliterated. Only gender counts now.

Sorry - here is the link

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1248434-Im-a-woman-on-Wednesdays

I registered at GN years ago as part of a blog thing so I get their daily email bulletins. This was the headline in this morning's email.

Someone on the thread has linked to the petition, which is great. I like to think GN is on the brink of being peaked...

I’ll go for a walk and enjoy the weather.

Ooh me too - I forgot I had to walk the dog - it's like we're in sync!