Guess how I got suspended from the Labour Party?

But if it did come in as set out in the Scottish consultation, it still necessitates that they "confirm they fully understand the implications of their application and intend to live in their acquired gender for the rest of their lives."

They mentioned non binary gender identity in the Scottish consultation. Obviously my comments were wholly negative. How would that work then, given that they don't have an "acquired gender"? Which facilities and services should they use? Because obviously the Scottish consultation answered all these questions, didn't it?

No - it wouldn't prevent Pip Bunce. Labour AWS don't require, or ask for a legal declaration. Only that they self-identify as a women.

Thanks for acknowledging speakingwoman, appreciated.

If self identification is all it takes then “pretending” has been abolished.

I'm actually not in favour of self ID as I've said many times. But if it did come in as set out in the Scottish consultation, it still necessitates that they "confirm they fully understand the implications of their application and intend to live in their acquired gender for the rest of their lives."

So that would prevent the Wednesday Women and Bunces would it not?

BTW - SMG - not all transwomen have GRCs - so not all are legally women.

Just dismiss all our fears with a pat on the head SuperMatchGame.

I’ll ask you again. If I were to find one of these individuals routing through the bins in a toilet could I throw them out as they aren’t a genuine transwoman?

And do you know what. Violence is committed all day every day by men against women. This is why we want safe spaces, without men in them. I don’t have to go through the dark corners of the internet to find examples they are in every newspaper every day.

That's right, Supermatchgame - you just try to downplay that behaviour - a known trait of people with AGP - and tell women we don't need to worry about it. Event though they're trying to gain access to our bathrooms.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

genuine trans women

which is?````````

@SupermatchGame How do you intend to keep the sexual predators and fetishists out once you allow self ID?

Anyway, SuperMatchGame. Are these fake or real transwomen?

That's right Simon you carry on entertaining yourself. The more bizarre the better hey. I know, why not find the most outlandish strange offensive behaviour in the world and then use it to gaslight genuine trans women?

I’m sorry for posting something so upsetting but I feel it is vital we see them.

I’m sure this is only a tiny percentage of transwoman but I’m still not happy with that risk.

I’m so sad for the transwoman who are also being damaged by these wrong minded individuals.

Urgh, i only read a bit of that and wanted to vomit.

Before I got that far, I wanted to take issue with the point about whether David has a female gender identity. What exactly is a female gender identity? How does one know if one has it? I have been four decades on this planet and I don’t have a gender identity.

So how can I judge someone else’s?

David, bless him, wants to be the Woman’s Officer to highlight injustices to women. The problem seems to be, despite saying he identifies as a woman (clearly he has found the gender identity thing which eludes me), he looks like a man. Now other people who say they identify as women also look biologically male, but that seems fine.

So is the problem that David’s gender identity is only part-time, or that it is apparently fake?

And what even is this gender identity thing anyway? I don’t have one. We cannot see it, smell it, taste it or touch it. So how does anyone know what it is, much less be certain enough today David’s is not real enough.

Very confused.

Only trans identified males with GRC are considered legally women. But let's go round again, do!

Quite. You said it yourself. They are legally women. Hence not men. Even when it comes out of your own mouth you dispute it!

This is often dismissed but those screen shots by SimonBridges are relevant - I have experienced autogynophile behaviour myself in real life, it was very distressing as they like the fact they are making you uncomfortable and there's nothing you can do. Without going into all the very outing details, in my situation I refused to serve this person again and made it known to other colleagues.

One worrying aspect of self ID is that if an autogynophile tries to abuse it to get their kicks, you could be seen as discriminating against their 'gender identity' and face a legal challenge if you refuse to play along, like I did. I actually know a couple of trans people in real life and the ones I have spoken to share the same concerns about 'weirdos' further abusing the system as they have also come across those types in their communities and had unpleasant experiences.

It's perfectly ok to be pro Trans but critical of these reforms and the increasingly nebulous definition of sex/gender, woman/man and what the wider implications are. It doesn't have to be a war, no one needs to be 'erased' we could just listen to each other, think realistically and be sensible. Just saying 'transwomen are women' over and over does not help, when you can't even define 'women' or appreciate their needs and concerns.

Thank you for highlighting this issue David, I think you have done so respectfully and with the attitude of someone just trying to be sensible.

Datun Totally agree. I read a thread on a USA trans forum where the TIM was taking high doses of hormones and using a breast pump every 4 hours day and night, to lactate would make them a 'real' woman and be the epitome of the 'womanhood' they dreamed of. It was completely taking over their life as they strove to be able to produce milk. It was stomach churning tbh.

(Sorry, cocked up a copy paste from another thread. But you know what I mean.)

Posting offensive comments about them works, too.

And also - it doesn't really matter how people identify. If it becomes normalised that obviously male people frequent women's spaces, and we know that a significant minority of male people have fetishes such as listening to women pee or collecting their used sanitary products, why wouldn't those fetishists put on a dress and some lippy on a Tuesday afternoon when they fancied getting off? It doesn't matter if they actually have a trans identification or not.

Italiangreyhound

@SimonBridges My good Lord I feel sick, who goes through a sanitary bin???????????????????????????????????

The whole thing is quite revolting.

Breast feeding also gets fetishised.

With desperate, long term use of pumps and hormones.

Once you see this side of things, the misogyny running through the community is less surprising.

Thank you David, we need more people like you in politics

Thank you David.

"Simonbridges* I'm lost for words.

You are discriminating against me because you feel I am the wrong kind of transgender person. I am clearly not enough of a woman for your liking.

Exactly. So, SMG, what do you have to say to our sister, David? Who are you to gatekeep David's identity?

@SimonBridges My good Lord I feel sick, who goes through a sanitary bin???????????????????????????????????

@IAmDavidLewis hi, met you in Basingstoke. How can we support you? (You are fab).

@IAmDavidLewis

I have been supporting you on Twitter, I won;t post my Twitter name here though.

I am in awe of what you have done, it's brilliant.