Labour clarifies trans women and AWS

crispbutty the EA either protects women and women only spaces or it doesn't. A space cannot be women only if it also includes people who are not women. Being able to ask for a female hcp doesn't work if 'female' also means anyone who fancies a gander.

Yes the EA protects those with a GRC but that makes them legally female not actually female. Just as the government giving Santa dispensation to travel during the foot and mouth outbreak wasn't evidence of the existence of Santa claus.

Since you seem to believe that gender identity has nothing to do with stereotypes, please explain what it is. What is it people are identifying with when they say this?

No using stereotypes, circular logic or mystical inner souls.

Why is it OK for Philip Bunce to identify as a woman some days and as a man on other days but not OK for David Lewis to say much the same thing? How do you know that a part-time trans woman is sincere?

Oh Gasp!
Didn't you know to look for the pinkly sparkly shit flying above their sincere pink LadyBrain? /snark How else could you tell, given it is a deep-down, highly invisible, sense of pink brainedness? /more snark

Pencils: Labour are reinterpreting 'sex' to mean 'self-ID'd gender identity'

Yes they are, but the real point is that they are doing it before legislation changes, and therefore, discriminating against females and 'GRC transwomen'. The 'woke scramble' could get them into hot water, potentially, on those grounds. What they are doing is NOT supported by current legislation as it stands.

I’m still waiting for the answer to that question by the way, Crisp.

This evidence was requested yesterday in another thread as I recall and wasn’t forthcoming. If Crisp is still looking for it after all this time then I suggest that they might be wasting their time.

chipbutty The majority of women support trans women insofar as they don't wish for harm to come to them, that they have the right to live as they please as long as they don't cause harm to others (same for anyone really.) So your shitty research shows that obvious truth and it's nice to see that you realise that. However where is your evidence that the majority of biological women support self ID? Which is an entirely different thing and the issue that is important here.

I can't face James O'Brien today. Did he say:

1. it's so complicated I don't know that to think;
2. actually, there's a serious issue being raised that needs to be considered; or
3. TERFS and TERF-a-likes are nasty?

Isn’t it amazing what happens when a man highlights it.

Only if you are determined to miss the point.

Opponents of self-ID say it's wide open to abuse and that it doesn't make sense. If anybody can say they are anything, where does it stop?

Why is it OK for a man to say 'I am a woman now' and be accepted at face value with no further checks on his sincerity, but not for a white person to say 'I am a black person now'?

Why is it OK for Philip Bunce to identify as a woman some days and as a man on other days but not OK for David Lewis to say much the same thing? How do you know that a part-time trans woman is sincere? Are transactivists completely writing off all the evidence that some people have a sexual fetish around cross dressing and the effect it has on those around them?

Why are transactivists uncritically accepting biologically male sex offenders who declare themselves transgender and ask for a transfer to a women's prison, but clutching their pearls at David Lewis's statement that he is female on Wednesdays?

Can you not see that there needs to be absolute clarity about something as fundamental as what determines whether someone is a male or a female. We have a perfectly good definition at the moment. Man = adult human male, woman = adult human female. Changing it is not a trivial thing.

James O'Brien on LBC discussing self ID and this story now

Thus...job done.

Suspect that the end result of this complete nonsense will be that AWS and women's officers roles will be abandoned as well as any intention of support of women by the LP

Why should David Lewis be banned and not Lily madigan?
Please explain why they are different.

I'd like to know, too.

I thought that would be cause for celebration, ironically theres 12 pages of people who were cheering for a man to become womens officer..... it's so topsy turvy on here sometimes It's difficult to follow...

Sorry you find it difficult to follow crispbutty. It's not really very complicated.

Crisp, you haven’t answered the question you’ve only reiterated part of it. Please answer the question.

I've had a quick look at Mathew Wright twitter account this morning after his show that included a section on David Lewis' suspension. Have a look crispbuttyfan and consider whether people are really supportive of self id. There are many comments on there that would have been swiftly deleted on here (made by men though, so it's fine). Also surprised you weren't challenging DL on his thread? Just us wimmin that need to shut up obviously.

I would imagine the majority of people would say it's wrong to be nasty to trans people. The majority of people though would not say that a person with a penis is a woman and that such a person should be permitted into women's safe spaces.

It's fascinating to see how the argument gets framed. When defending from "attack" trans people are defined as only transsexuals and people with gender dysphoria, especially young people. When lobbying and pushing for trans liberation, in march the cross-dressing men, fetishists, and violent misogynists, and any resistance to some of these people is shouted down as transphobia.

Crisp, I am morally superior and you’re all thick is not going to win your argument.
I think you might be missing the point of the stunt.
David applied to run for the women’s officer position on the basis that he is a woman on Wednesday. The LP excepted this because the system is self identification. David then outed himself in a press article saying that it was a publicity stunt to highlight the problems with self ID, so the LP suspended him.
If he hadn’t outed himself in the press he would still be running.
Please can you answer me this question
Now that we have seen that the system can be abused/subverted by a man who was only stopped by outing himself in the press, how can it be proved that any other man who tries to abuse the system Who doesn’t confess is not who they say they are, when the bar has been set at I am who I say I am?

the fact that most of this board see's no difference between david lewis and a trans woman, is a problem and a feature of this board, that simply isn't shared throughout society

The ‘fact’ that David Lewis, by virtue of “identifying as a woman”, IS a transwoman, is a feature of the trans umbrella ideology as promoted by Stonewall etc. I don’t agree with it, I think it is damaging to everyone, but radical feminists are not the ones promoting it. We’d rather get rid of the apparent social requirement to classify yourself according to gender stereotypes altogether. The whole issue is that under transgenderism, you don’t get to pick and choose who is allowed to identify as transgender based on whether you approve of their reasons for doing so. And that’s fine, but, hence the need to protect sex-segregated spaces/positions etc being based on sex, as distinct from any gender classifications or identities.

All major parties agree with this stance
AFAIAA not all major parties have all-women shortlists, so by definition cannot agree with this stance, surely.

If people actually accepted the equality act in it's intentions, and mainstream understanding, instead of dodgy wordpress interpretations, it wouldn't be so confusing to so many people on here.

It isn’t confusing - and we’re not talking about dodgy interpretations, the wording of the act itself has been quoted. If the act is no longer fit for purpose, in this brave new world, by all means campaign for its reform, but as it stands sex is the protected characteristic which allows exemption in this case.

People disagree with you, crispbutty, that’s all.

Sorry no. The vast majority do not support TAs position in this. Many haven't thought about it or think it is such a small issue as to be irrelevant.

You only have to ask about self ID for sport or hospital wards etc before people raise objections.

If the Equality act cannot protect female born people then it is not worth the paper it is written on. If it cannot protect females, who is it actually protecting? People who wear skirts? People with handbags? People with (insert stereotype here)?

trans support is now in the majority of people.

Please provide evidence for this.

If people actually accepted the equality act in it's intentions, and mainstream understanding, instead of dodgy wordpress interpretations, it wouldn't be so confusing to so many people on here.

We're not confused, thanks for the little patronising aside there.

Why should David Lewis be banned and not Lily madigan?

Please explain why they are different.