Class analysis...

I think you surely must know that the standard working class household in a ‘crappy northern town’ is double earner, man has the ‘main job’, very often man fucks off and doesn’t bother paying for the dc...?

Honestly, you mentioned how ‘privileged’ we all are but you’ve moved to a nice place now. I am here, on Merseyside, on a council estate... right now....

fmsfms. That isn't what unearned privilege means. The use of "unearned" is to signify "undeserved".

Forget about money and pay for a minute.

An example. In current society boys and men get to see themselves in the media often being portrayed as in charge, as having status, as being protagonists.

Women are less visible in the media and are often portrayed as low status, as victims, etc.

There is a socializing effect of this (especially when combined with institutionalized sexism) which sends a message to boys and men that they are automatically worthy of more status than women. This affects how they see themselves in the world and their confidence and actions. There is no real reason for this other than the fact that we live in a hierarchical society which values boys and men above girls and women.

This is unearned privilege.

Why do you think that every British Prime Minister bar 2 has been a man? Because men are better than women or because society treats men as better than women?

When you are subject to the same shitty circumstances re work as working class men are but as you are a woman you also are expected to fit your work around the man’s job and the kids and the housework because you are female you think this makes no difference? That because your male partner has a shittier time re work than another man you just suck it up and you don’t have the right to say ‘hey wait a minute, why is all the unpaid shit meant to be entirely my job?’

Where is the classless utopia that you live in

No such thing I live in quite a nice place now. But I grew up in a deprived northern town.
My dad was a teacher. Kids learning they were born of incest, loads of substance abuse, chronic low attendance at school, neglect.
And once these boys and girls left school with no education there were no jobs to go to. Having your pants washed for you isn’t a massive plus.

We had the discussion earlier about who had most privilege of two highly underprivileged people. I for one don’t feel the need to go there again. Brief overview below

^Sorry but I just think we are in danger of going down the whole. A white homeless person has more privilege than a black homeless person nonesence again.

Poor men and women in deprived areas have a shit time of it. A group of privileged people on on internet board arguing about who has the slightly shitter end of the stick does not sound good. I’ve no desire to go there again^

You can't use someone getting paid for providing her services as an example of "unearned privilege"

I'm literally amazed that you think that's a relevant example of unearned privilege.

Here let me do it for you:

Unearned privilege - being born into the royal family and all that brings.

Unearned privilege - getting into Oxbridge without the right grades because of family ties.

Unearned privilege - getting a job at a company because of family connections

Paying someone for their services is not unearned privilege.

If a man is too lazy and "mediocre" to clean up after himself and he pays a female cleaner to do it, is that unearned privilege?

fmsfms.

Unearned privilege isn't about being paid (although it can be about that).

It's about status, opportunity, power, etc being unfairly awarded more to some than others according to class based categories.

Do you know the saying "behind every great man there is a great woman"?

ConstantlyCold. No, I don't spend much time in deprived northern towns.

But I'm from farther north, Scotland to be exact. A place with a lot of deprivation (in western terms). And I don't know a single town decimated by the decline of heavy industry and the subsequent poverty and social problems that accompanied that doesn't have women doing wifework and men exploiting that. AKA as unearned male privilege.

Where is the classless utopia that you live in?

Statistically women as a class are responsible for nearly all false rape accusations.
Are those UK statistics you are referring to?

Yes.

"Unearned privilege is the reason why there are disproportionate numbers of men in positions of power and mediocre men in high flying jobs being supported by a wife and a female PA"

Oh, are those female PA's working for free? The fact that those PA's are EARNING a living in exchange for the services implies that the privilege of their services is not UNEARNED.

Maybe "class awareness" is something reasonable to ask for though?

An awareness that life is easier on some than others?

And that that is unfair and wrong and needs changing.

Exception = exceptional

bewilderness

People like you

What exactly are you implying by this? My point was this was an exception culture change speech. Had it involved an in-depth explaination of class analysis it would not have had the impact. That was the point I was trying to make.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the content of their character but by how the color of their skin fits into a class-based sociological analysis. I have a dream today!

....is not what the man said. He was looking forward to the end of these distinctions, not their ever-deeper and more pervasive spread.

Yes, that’s why identity politics is bad...

Thanks! I won't wast my time reading yours any further.

This is shockingly disingenuous

I have already said in one of my previous posts that class analysis was of course important in the basis of the speech. But giving people a lecture on what class analysis is and explaining they should do Y because they are part of class X is not going to enthuse anyone.

I can’t be arsed copying and pasting the post but have a read back through the thread it’s there.

Agreed but it’s not very good at changing heart and minds. In all seriousness imagine the “I Have a Dream Speech” but the title is actually “I Have a Class Based Analysis”

This is shockingly disingenuous.
It was class based analysis that took us to the "I Have A Dream" speech.
People like you were there then too saying what you are saying here. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

So yes, it may seem ridiculous to talk about poor men in northern England as "privileged" but the chances are that even these men have "unearned privilege" or at least an expectation of it as they probably have a mother or a wife who washes their pants and makes their dinner

Sorry but I just think we are in danger of going down the whole. A white homeless person has more privilege than a black homeless person nonesence again.

Poor men and women in deprived areas have a shit time of it. A group of privileged people on on internet board arguing about who has the slightly shitter end of the stick does not sound good. I’ve no desire to go there again.

I think Bertrand was trying to say ‘why is male violence culturally considered a ‘women’s problem’?’

Yy proper collective responsibility

Genuinely glad we agree.

And when a complete stranger who happens to share my sex, my race, my social class, or my tennis club does something wrong, am I culpable if I do or say nothing?"

Only inasmuch as failure to object is assumed to be acquiescence.

Rather like the rapist argument that she was too frightened of me to say no, so I assumed she consented.

Statistically women as a class are responsible for nearly all false rape accusations.
Are those UK statistics you are referring to?

Yy proper collective responsibility.

I don’t think Bertrand was ever arguing that male violence is only the responsibility of men or that racism is only the responsibility of white people etc etc

For a working class woman life is all of the shitwork plus waged work.

Ha ha! Well I live in one and have for my whole life and I was nodding along....

Of course working class women have always worked for a wage but IME experience it is generally upper middle class women that are able to start freeing themselves a bit from the wifework.

I definitely think most people believe some things are a collective responsibility

Yes but proper collective responsibility meaning everyone. Not I belong to class X so I’m responsible for thing Y. I’m sorry, if I’ve misunderstood your post by the way.