Class analysis...

August last year! 🤦🏻‍♀️

I’ve even written letters for people actually and spent hours finding out what they want to say and wording it to express that.

I’ve helped women leave abusive men.

I’ve taken in kids for a few hours because they had been told to get out of the house while their parents had a party and were just wandering the street....

It’s just endless...

You sound remarkably unfrustrated offred have a great time at the party.

Things I have done in this community;

negotiated with the housing association after constant in and out of work lead to constant suspensions and reassessments of HB which led to arrears. They still took my neighbour to court and evicted her. Then bought her three kids Christmas presents because she had to pay moving costs.

Called the police and sat through the video interview as the responsible adult (they did it in my house) after a neighbour’s 13 year old disclosed sexual abuse by another neighbour. Then been at the end of the phone whenever I was needed.

Attended health and social care appointments for support.

Checked in regularly on suicidal neighbour and offer to give her grandkids tea.

Offered to take the baby regularly while night shift mum sleeps. (Both these were refused because of pride)

Lent money to people on a regular basis when their benefits were messed up cos of insecure work. I’ve got about 40% back but I make sure I don’t lend what I can’t afford, they always insist they will pay it back because they ‘don’t want a handout’ but I know they can’t afford to pay it back.

Given hours of advice (two hours this morning just re threatened eviction).

Proof read a million letters.

Virtually every single day there is something, you don’t even have to look for it. I’m disabled and exhausted as a single mum caring for a child with complex needs and trying to fight the system for us due to it being entirely broken, all I do is walk to school and back and I see my neighbours and we talk, every time there is a new problem. This party tomorrow will be the first time I have socialised since August last month and I feel too tired to go already. I like this community because we look after each other.

"Whatever they are doing or not doing, they will, automatically, have higher socio-economic and political status than their female counterparts. "

What?

You used an example of women doing all the housework for men as an example of male unearned privilege.

I asked you what the men are doing, the implication being that they are offering something in exchange (the obvious thing being working full time to provide financially)

You can't just counter with "the privilege fairy"

I don’t mean to be frustrated BTW. I live in this community and I share many of the economic and care issues but I had middle class socialisation and every single day I am reminded of just how much of an advantage that gives me.

Maybe start by acknowledging that the experiences of WC men and WC women are different? And that it’s not insulting to WC men to acknowledge that

No problem admitted people, women and men face different problems.

That all sounds shit offred

What can be done to help?

Maybe start by acknowledging that the experiences of WC men and WC women are different? And that it’s not insulting to WC men to acknowledge that...

Well actually one of the men is in jail for a double murder. His wife had to move off the estate because they evicted her after he was arrested. She slept in her car with her four kids for months because no-one would rent to the murderer’s wife...

offred

Well, it’s pretty insulting to working class women to erase the fact that the actual burden of being poor is magnified by also being a woman.

I thought you were going on about nuance re intersections of class earlier, that’s one right there

I think this is a fair point. But I don’t see a huge benefit in playing privilege top trumps. I really meant a nuanced approach to what issues various groups face and what measures can be put in place to try and help.

I’m going to my neighbour’s birthday party tomorrow for example. 20 women from the estate are invited. They are all single mums. Out of the five others that I know, I am the only one that gets child support and CMS called me the other day to tell me they want to take him to court because he won’t give them his employer’s name so they can garnish his wages which has only happened because he refuses to pay voluntarily...

what do you think the men are doing?

Whatever they are doing or not doing, they will, automatically, have higher socio-economic and political status than their female counterparts.

And that is unearned privilege. AKA class.

And none of that means that I don’t care about the fact where the men are around they are manual workers, or that some of them are dead because they were poor.

You can and should care about both.

Articulating that there is a difference in experience does not mean you can only care about one.

And then there’s the older women who are all single because either their male partners fucked off when the kids were young or their husbands died who are now retired but actually spend all their time taking care of their grandchildren because their children either can’t afford childcare or social care has removed the children from their parents. There are two of these women in sight of my house and I worry a lot about them, they are utterly at breaking point and one is suicidal.

Oh and there’s a few families where the women don’t do paid work at all and they all live off the man’s drug dealing... until the man goes to jail and then they end up like all the other single mums.

WC men? The real life examples I know are; sleeping while their wives do a night shift in a care after she comes puts the children to bed (the wives come home and get the older kids to school, do all the wifework and sleep while the baby naps), they are at the working men’s club or doing a hobby like bowls, the younger ones are often playing computer games or playing 5 a side with their friends...

Mostly the men will have one allocated job that has to be done everyday (after years of ‘nagging’) it is usually the washing up, their wives do everything else including drawing a bath for them and nagging them to get in it...

The vast vast majority of the men, well I have no fucking idea, they have entirely fucked off and these women are earning money buying and selling reduced clothes/toys from home, working zero hours in care jobs (with no pay for driving between appointments) if they have school age kids, working as dinner ladies, working night shifts on psychic hotlines...

Again, it’s not a competition

If it wasn’t a competition you wouldn’t be asking me to state which group have the shitter end of the stick.

"Perhaps not. But it is a plus that men generally have and they have it because women not only don't have it but are washing everybody's pants. "

Just curious, what do you think the men are doing? Or are they just sat at home watching Babestation whilst the women tidies up around them?

"There is a socializing effect of this"

I'm not getting into the nurture debate again.

"This is unearned privilege."

It really isn't.

"Why do you think that every British Prime Minister bar 2 has been a man? Because men are better than women or because society treats men as better than women?"

Neither of those reasons for starters

Again, it’s not a competition... If you want to take that argument to it’s logical conclusion absolutely no person can speak about material conditions of class because some people are dead....

And presumably you are aware that once you reach upper middle class as a woman you are able to outsource your shitwork.... to working class women...

But no-one is asking you to...

You seem to be saying that if you acknowledge the fact that it is much much harder to be poor and a woman because as well as being poor you have women’s work then you’ll be insulting poor men or somehow erasing the fact that being a poor man is shitty.

Well, it’s pretty insulting to working class women to erase the fact that the actual burden of being poor is magnified by also being a woman.

I thought you were going on about nuance re intersections of class earlier, that’s one right there!

When you are subject to the same shitty circumstances re work as working class men are but as you are a woman you also are expected to fit your work around the man’s job and the kids and the housework because you are female you think this makes no difference

The unequal amount of housework and child care by women is not simply true of working class women. It’s true of huge huge numbers regardless of class.

I’ve seen the mortality figures for men in my home town. They are shocking. I’m not going to start playing the this deprived group have it worse than this group.

Women in general do more housework and childcare than men. I’m not denying that for a second. What I won’t do is start say people who enjoy considerably less privilege than me are privileged.

Having your pants washed for you isn’t a massive plus

Perhaps not. But it is a plus that men generally have and they have it because women not only don't have it but are washing everybody's pants.

And doing everybody's cleaning, shopping, organizing, thinking about others, etc. And deferring to their husbands, and male bosses whilst watching themselves on TV being victimized and underrepresented in politics, economics etc.