Class analysis...

How does acknowledging that the only people men kill more often than women and children are other men advance the class analysis?
I guess it depends on how you define violence.

Well it is if you are looking at the impact of violence on men as a class - perpetrators and victims. You could categorise further and then address that through policy approach.

I think men are more likely to be Ictinus of violent crime, women are more likely to be victims of violent sexual crime.

On page 8 we see that the thread has been taken over by those who neither know nor care what class analysis is.
So it's not as much a matter of can't but won't because individuals would much prefer the post modern approach of playing oppression olympics, the game of logical fallacy, anecdotes, and whataboutism.

Our ancestors built societies on 'might makes right' and most, possibly all, continue to glorify violence to this day while we split hairs over which is justified and which is not.

You could also say that men as a class are more likely to experience violence - which is also true.

My teen son is white and more likely to be stabbed on the street than my teen daughter.
He is also more likely to commit suicide.

I suppose this information helps when formulating social/health policy. It’s helpful when describing large populations

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying men as a class are more violent than women as a class... Statistically it's true. But you can't say men as a class are violent otherwise you would also have to say women as a class are also violent.

Such a shame that a very ibteresting tgread has been so derailed by posters flexing their intellectual muscles very badly
I dont know why women can't talk about mechanisms enabling identification of patterns

midgebabe I have been enjoying your posts

beckaellen
There are two recent cases in the media of sexually motivated murders of women where the watching of violent porn was cited as influential in the case

We didn’t discuss violent porn. I actually think violent porn is a different matter from violent TV, gaming and films. There really isn’t evidence that those increase violence.

I’m pretty sure violent porn is very damaging (and I’m a liberal feminist - or as you would call me not a proper feminist).

it is easy to imagine an alternate universe where it is white people who are much more likely to be violent, and black people who are nervous/frightened of them.

This already exists. Black people in the US and in particular, black men, are well aware that police - as a class - pose a greater threat to them - as a class - than they do to white people - as a class. Teenage black boys are generally given a talk by their parents that white boys don't get - along the lines of how to avoid confrontation with the police, what to do if stopped etc.

I was once told by two white intersectional feminists that I was "white passing" and therefore had "white privilege" (I'm mixed race). They based this on my facebook profile picture where I'm wearing sunglasses and had a comedy hat on, thus obscuring most of my identifying features.

When I pointed out to them that they were stepping "out of their lanes", "denying my lived experience" and needed to "check their privileges as white women who have never had their ethnicity/identity called into question" then they got mad and blocked me.

Funny that

Maybe it just seems a bit silly to put such large groups of people with so little in common into a class. My experience as a white person is extremely different to that of a white person of western European heritage. Most people can't guess my heritage by looking at me and just lump me into the category of white so I enjoy many of the privileges that wore people do but I don't really consider myself a white person. My life experience has been extremely different and I am sick of being told what I can and cannot say or think because of how I look. I may enjoy white privilege to an extent (obviously I don't have a lot of the privileges that white white have but I don't mind that) but I have a wider life experience specifically because of my ethnic origins. I just have very little in common with the average white person barring the assumptions that less wprldly people make about me. If I had to put myself into a class based on race other than race itself it would have to be child of migrants or something similar.

This isn't really relevant to the discussion but I just read this on the Wikipedia article 'third wave feminism'

The term third wave is credited to Rebecca Walker, who responded to Thomas's appointment to the Supreme Court with an article in Ms. magazine, "Becoming the Third Wave" (1992).[1][7] She wrote:

So I write this as a plea to all women, especially women of my generation: Let Thomas’ confirmation serve to remind you, as it did me, that the fight is far from over. Let this dismissal of a woman's experience move you to anger. Turn that outrage into political power. Do not vote for them unless they work for us. Do not have sex with them, do not break bread with them, do not nurture them if they don't prioritize our freedom to control our bodies and our lives. I am not a post-feminism feminist. I am the Third Wave.[1]

@patriarchypersonified "All actual feminists (and I don't mean the lib fems)"

Sounds like she was making a no true Scotsman fallacy

" think it is emblematic of women's subordinate position in society."

How do you explain gay porn then?

Men are more likely to be primarily sexually stimulated/aroused by looks/visuals, that's why porn exists and why men don't buy erotic/romantic fiction

Out of interest, how do the "no male/female brains" "pro nurture" crowd explain that one?

All actual feminists (and I don't mean the lib fems)

Because yours is the only true feminism, the only one that's allowed.

🤔

To Constantly Cold: There are two recent cases in the media of sexually motivated murders of women where the watching of violent porn was cited as influential in the case. The victims were Kim Wall and Yinying Zhang. I wish men would not watch porn. I think that is something they could do personally. I think they could act and speak with friends as if they think porn is not acceptable. All actual feminists (and I don't mean the lib fems) hate porn and think it is emblematic of women's subordinate position in society.

should I just get a cup of tea?

I wonder wot our Lord Father DOCTOR Peterson would say. The word of the good DOCTOR is SCIENCE don’t you know.

@offred blame the person/people that think it's acceptable to rephrase my posts in order to flagrantly misrepresent my opinions

What you're doing looks a lot like victim blaming

how boring this thread has got now it has become all about how great fms thinks fms is...

PatriarchyPersonified.

Your comparison is neither valid nor pertinent. It is an attempt at a false equivalence. And a not very nice one at that because yes, it does appropriate the legitimate struggle of people of colour against racism in order to shame women for legitimately noticing the deeply engrained culture of male violence they live in.

And yes, that is misogynistic. I'm not sure what else to say really. Your posts are trying to claim that I'm not making a point other than "your post is offensive" when in fact I have clearly argued 3 times now why your point is fatally flawed and misogynistic to boot.

Reminder (I will post this everytime people like midgebabe decide to straw man me)

You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.

By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.

Example: After Will said that we should put more money into health and education, Warren responded by saying that he was surprised that Will hates our country so much that he wants to leave it defenceless by cutting military spending.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman