Trans women

I was assumed that quote to be applied in man/woman situation, maybe like a date.

Yes it makes more sense in terms of sexual assault. Trans women are also at risk of sexual assault, violence and homicide from dating men..

that men should be kept away from men for their own safety?

I can think of a few ways that male on male violence could be reduced, but maybe with 70% of all the MPs in the Houses of Parliament, men could think about this themselves?

so the fact the the majority of violence towards men is carried out by other men is not relevant in this case.

Reluctant it is if you were a man and wanted to reduce your risk of death. Given the statistical risk, such a person would be wise to go to greater lengths to avoid other men, than women have to, in order to avoid being killed.

I was assumed that quote to be applied in man/woman situation, maybe like a date.

In fact I think the question was repeated prior to blind dates. The men's main worry was that she would think he was an idiot (i.e. laugh at him) and the women's main worry was that he would be a nut job (dangerous).

There are so many exchanges online, where you see one leading directly from the other. Men who engage with women online will turn into frothing, violent monsters at the smallest hint of the woman showing contempt. A contempt which generally results from trying to say no to the man, and him failing to take any notice.

Those Bye Felipe websites are a prime example.

It's intended to contrast the worst things the sexes can do to each other SupermatchGame.

Who do you think is killing those men, SMG? Is it women? And who is killing the vast majority of the women?

I don't think it's men killing them. The statistics show very clearly that it is. And they're killing more than twice as many men than women. So based on that you would think that...that men should be kept away from men for their own safety?

Women are more likely to be victims of sexual assault. I just wasn't sure how the quote about killing and being laughed at was relevant.

AllyMcBeagle

As Bearsinmotion says above "living as a woman" is a meaningless undefined phrase, so any requirement to do so is likely to be unenforceable.

It is a requirement today that in order to obtain a GRC the applicant must intend to live in their acquired gender for the rest of their lives. A Gender Recognition Panel (a tribunal) decides if this is the case. Therefore, I see no problems in the future for a court to decide whether an individual intends to live as a women for their entire life.

Further, in the Irish legislation, section 14 allows for revocation of a GRC if the minister is subsequently made aware of facts that had they known before, then they would not have issued the GRC.

Can I draw everyone's attention to Ibi-Pippi again?
www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/35dm73/meet_ibipippi_the_lesbian_trapped_in_the_body_of/
As a lawyer who has specialised in the Equality Act I can say I am very concerned that this kind of thing will happen over here if self ID is brought in. The legislation isn't strong enough to keep out artists, pranksters and most unfortunately men who are seeking to abuse women

Re Ibi-Pippi Orup Hedegaard‏ - you refer to a MRA reddit - not the most reliable source of information. He was barred from the women's changing room and sued the gym. I was unable to find an coverage of whether he won the case - I am sure if he had won there would have been publicity. And obviously the laws in Denmark are different from England and Wales.

I don't understand why you think a change to the requirements to obtain a GRC will suddenly change the application of the Equality Act. I believe the opposite is likely to be the case. As the evidential value of a GRC decreases, an applicant with a GRC bringing a case for gender reassignment discrimination has a weaker case.

As for men seeking to abuse women, I think if it is far fetched to suggest that they would bring and win an Equality Act case in order to enable their offending. I don't know of any Court of Appeal or Supreme Court cases on the Equality Act in this area. This leaves Croft v Royal Mail, which was a Sex Discrimination Act case, as the leading case. In Croft, the applicant who was described as a "genuine transsexual" under going a medical transition who was barred by her employers from using the female toilet 9 months into her transition. The court found this was not discrimination.

The focus is on transwomen becoming women because that is all we hear about...where are the voices of the transmen?

This whole issue is male centric and about what men want...targeted at women to make way for them but not at men to broaden what it means to be a man.

but the quote SupermatchGame is about the worries that the sexes have about each other.

so the fact the the majority of violence towards men is carried out by other men is not relevant in this case. The fact that the vast majority of violence towards women is carried out by men is.

it's also interesting to note that the vast majority of violence towards anyone is carried out by men.

men should have a lot more to worry about than just being laughed at

Maybe they should deal with that problem. They could set up refuges or something.

Whether men underestimate risk or not is not really the subject of the quote, is it? Men don't like women laughing at them. Women fear men because men are more violent. As you realise.

and 29% were female (180 victims).

And how many of all the victims were killed by women? Assuming some people were killed by women, how were they killed? How much more difficult was if for a woman to kill somebody?

The reality is that women know that they have a limited ability to fight back if physically attacked by a man, and the only certain method is to avoid being in the situation in the first place.

Indeed. So the point, which was about the underestimation of risk that the quote described, highlights that men should have a lot more to worry about than just being laughed at. Same as women. Or more so.

Well then men are grossly underestimating the risk. It makes a nice sounding quote, but if you check the latest statistical update from ONS:

Who do you think is killing those men, SMG? Is it women? And who is killing the vast majority of the women? Is it women or is it men?

And as usual in these "debates" of trying to get women to submit, Pseudo left the thread blaming other posters. ie, because we have been scared by "debate". So transparent and predictable.

Men (regardless of glitter identity) regularly kill other men. Men (regardless of glitter identity) regularly kill women. Women (regardless of glitter identity) rarely kill other women. Women (regardless of glitter identity) rarely kill men. Comparing victims of homicide isn't the point. Comparing perpetrators is.

This kind of bullying is intolerable. What gave the woman the right to accost my friend?

The trans ideology. Boundary pushing males have made women suspicious.

If people are behaving sexually in your changing room, call the police. There are laws to deal with that.

Did you read my link? AGP isn't illlegal. Neither is the rank misogyny it encompasses. But the behaviour often is. Emotional abuse, using people as unwitting participants, etc.

It's all but almost impossible to hold these men accountable.

Read the link. Or just google trans widows. They're not exactly scarce.

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them. - Margaret Atwood (paraphrased).

Well then men are grossly underestimating the risk. It makes a nice sounding quote, but if you check the latest statistical update from ONS:

The majority of homicide victims were male in the year ending March 2017 (71%, 433 victims) and 29% were female (180 victims).
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017

But again, don't let the facts get in the way of a good trans bashing story!

But I've realised that open healthy debate is only viewed as open healthy debate if you are in agreement with the majority here.

The problem is that while there are often two sides to an argument, they don't always carry equal weight. See also climate change and vaccines.

Transwomen and Women both need protection from discrimination, and they both need particular services. The problem is that they don't share any particular qualities that they don't share with the rest of humanity and sometimes their needs are in conflict.

You can't give rights and services to a group you can't define and you need to be able to explain why a group needs protections or services in order to give them protections and services.

Pseud, reading those posts it is clear you are missing a large part of the debate. It would be really useful if you could read lots of the other threads on here and come back when you've done so.

I've read posts on this thread saying being trans is a mental illness.

Trabs Rights Activists would vehemently disagree and consider that transphobic.

You said you don't know what AGP is. You absolutely cannot come here and start telling people what to think unless you understand the role of AGP in the Trans rights debate. It's not a private fetish. It is a very public one. I would say that AGP voices are shouting far louder than those with true gender dysphoria and they are being listened to

And yes to this thread having started about transmen and yet here we all are, as usual, talking about transwomen.

I think I might start calling myself a Round Earther rather than a feminist. You'd be most welcome to join me, Upstart! Shall we have a secret handshake?

There is a lot in TRA dialogue about being able to be your authentic self.

My authentic self is slim and able-bodied. If society could please facilitate me being those things, I'd be extremely grateful.

Surely an open debate is healthy.

You would think so. But I've realised that open healthy debate is only viewed as open healthy debate if you are in agreement with the majority here.

Can I join? We could have a logo of some kind of round object.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brainbox-Candy-Biscuit-jammy-dodger-badge-funny-cute-cheap-birthday-gift-present/222530104440?hash=item33cfd3ec78:g:8coAAOSwiDFYNGHS

Reading through this, I feel like a member of that well-known minority group, The Round Earther Society.