Trans women

For them their intersex condition is that their sense of self, the who they are, does not correspond with their physical reality.

This is why everyone hates us.

Crusoe

This thread is going to be cheese fondue by morning because of all the abusive language the godless one has used throughout.

Supermatch game
Sadly I won't. I will still see them as women who had to change to get some form of respect. I see them as female bodied people who had to transition to at least have a hope in competing in a very male dominated environment. Fair play to them but in the locker room biological males will always feel superior in my opinion. I know plenty females who are in the services. They have to fight their corner everyday for equality. I also know they are respected for this. Show me these woman. But if you want to give me a reality check it would be more prudent to do this from an ordinary perspective as what you showed me was not typical of the general public. Give me examples of normality.

Or maybe they're so determined to be seen as men or women that that is all that matters to them. I wonder if they were Robinson crushed. I wonder if the hormone injections would slip even if they had a lifetimes supply. I'm not including dysphoria here by the way.

Men should be able to present themselves however they want, wear whatever they want, make-up or no make-up, pretty dresses or suits or jeans, whatever, etc. etc. - and not be harassed and/or discriminated against for doing so.

Women have need of sex-segregated places where men, any men, are not allowed, *because of women's biology".

@Nogodsnomasters
Because if trans women are women, then they can be Girl Guide leaders.
And they can use women's Rape Crisis and DV shelters.
And they can be placed on womens mental health and hospital wards.

Do you see how that works?

...but a trans-woman isn’t a man. She just has the misfortune to be born with a male body.

That's what sex means. The confusion arises when people don't understand the definition of the word sex. It is a description of potential reproductive function. That's it. Just a description.

@daktun oooh the only psychos are men, and there we have it, back to the true roots of this board.... Man hating

Not 'the only', just 98% of the time, as I said.

But 'man hating' is it? Gosh I do hope you are not another MRA who enjoys poker.

Basically why do most trans women want to be models and most trans men want to be soldiers. It makes no sense based on what you're saying. To me it looks like they think they can only be a real soldier as a man or a real model as a woman

Science is evidence based. What science are you referring to?

@Nogodsnomasters You cant follow the strands of the debate if it isnt linear?

You are the one demanding women accept TIMS as women, so what do you actually mean when you say that?

Its noticeable though isn't it how trans people are like characatures of masculinity or feminity. It's like caitlin Jenner. If she was a real woman she'd more than likely be a member of the blue rinse brigade

What is NPD?

Pseudonymium:
*Their brains may be one sex and their genitals are the opposite"

I'm sorry, but your comments constitute a crock of glittery-unicorn total shit! So anti-science, it is unbelievable!

Also, intersex support groups have asked, repeatedly, to leave intersex people out of this argument. In my experience, feminists respect this request, by Men's/Trans Rights people do not.

@upstart you started demanding to know why I believed it was okay for transwomen to share spaces etc in one post when I had spoke of no such thing when I asked you why you were saying that you didnt respond and changed tactic again to girl guides. You'll throw anything from your "reserve of facts" at me even if it means subtly changing the topic because you can't explain why you are so cruel as to not accept transwomen as women. End of. That is most certainly the definition of changing the subject, you are so obvious with it I'm afraid.

So why dont trans activists accept that and campaign for their own spaces and services?

Pseudonymium
Are you arguing that transgender is a personality disorder that children are born with, like NPD?

Not the wrong body. A trans person has their own body. For them their intersex condition is that their sense of self, the who they are, does not correspond with their physical reality.

@pseudo better than anything I could have worded as I'm not that way inclined, just because someone doesn't have a flair for words doesn't mean they don't have opinions to share though.

Some babies are born with a different sexual ambiguity that can’t be seen at birth. Their brains may be one sex and their genitals are the opposite.

Born in the wrong body is a myth.
Read Delusions of Gender and you will better understand how this myth was created.

No, you think its a change of subject because you arent well informed and dont know what you are talking about - or you are not here in good faith. Thats not for me to judge.

@upstart 3rd time you've tried to change the topic now when I confront you on your assumptive responses, I feel like you're just replying to your own thoughts and not my actual fucking messages.

There are no men who want to become women.
And there are no women who want to become men.

If a child is born with an intersex condition resulting in ambiguous genitalia, the best practice is to allow that child to grow up without surgically altering their genitals until they are old enough to say If they are a girl or a boy, or even neither. I hope you’d agree this is right and humane.

Some babies are born with a different sexual ambiguity that can’t be seen at birth. Their brains may be one sex and their genitals are the opposite. They too can tell you which sex they are, but their bodies contradict them. Can you imagine how distressing it is for a girl to grow a beard and have her voice break, or a boy to start having periods and breast development. This is the reality for thousands of people, many are too ashamed and depressed to even ask for help. They spend years living in misery and many attempt suicide.

A man would never want to be a woman, but a trans-woman isn’t a man. She just has the misfortune to be born with a male body. She will tell you that if only you’ll listen. Similarly, no woman would choose to be a man, but a trans-man isn’t a woman. He just has the misfortune to have been born with a female body. He will tell you that if only you’d listen.

Please start to see that trans is not a choice. Hiding it or coming out is, and the recent increase in numbers is because more people are feeling confident to come out of hiding and ask for help. This is because society is generally wiser now about human diversity, and realises the misery that intolerance can cause.

I think she's genuinely ignorant and goading for calling datun a psycho