Shon Faye & Ash Shankar review of Gender quake.

It is the same systematic take over that was so effective in the LGBT communities. Feminist organizations and publications resisted until they were overwhelmed.
I see the same tactic of single focusing being used here at FWR that was so effective against the LGB.

It makes me furious that feminism appears now to be about whether male-born people can be women and where they can access, rather than the harms which male-bodied people do to female-bodied people.

Me too.

On access to women’s spaces, Shon is very welcome to come into my house and spend the next two hours deep cleaning my kitchen and fridge, and then cleaning my living room, bathroom and the rest of the house.

Or what about stepping into the shoes of any of the women who appear beaten, killed, or otherwise abused in the pages of the press every single day. And that is only the ones reported on. Because it is women I see dead and abused in newspapers daily, and it is daily, not trans people. No one, whether female or trans, or male, should be abused or injured or killed, it is not a zero sum game, but it’s women I am seeing in the press as victims mainly. Female-bodied people. Of male-bodied people.

That’s just two of women’s spaces I would be more than happy to give up.

Or better still, I would like male bodied people to stop acting as if womanning was a performance that we choose. And male-bodied people to stop acting as if they own women’s bodies (whether by relying on their labour, abusing their bodies, or appropriating their physical characteristics).

It makes me furious that feminism appears now to be about whether male-born people can be women and where they can access, rather than the harms which male-bodied people do to female-bodied people.

Male-bodied people at a population level do harm to female-bodied people. Why would female-bodied people want to make that easier and not say no? Why do male-bodied people not listen to no?

No, no and no again. I want myself and my DD and every other female-bodied person to have spaces which are only for female-bodied people. Why does that not matter?

Because I cannot see the difference between an abusive husband refusing me privacy and the ability to say no, and this.

People with gender dysphoria have the right to access services and support, and the fact that they cannot is about underfunding of services. That won’t be solved by removing safeguards for women and children.

I find that amazing given the frequency of stolen identity.

Possibly.

You can get a drivers licence changed in the UK without a birth certificate. You can change the sex on your passport with a doctor's letter. If you're changing your name at the same time you also need a deedpoll and evidence you're using the new name.

Is the Birth Certificate issue country specific? I had to haul it out to get a Drivers License, Passport, and when applying for Social Security or any other federal program. Had a terrible and expensive time getting people registered to vote because they did not have a certified copy of their BC.

I tried watching the video of Shon/Ash with a clear aim of trying to really understand his viewpoint but I got lost in the amount of times he used the word 'like', there was no coherent thought there at all. Seriously, you can't focus for all the 'like like like like like like likes'.

If it really was nothing, and nothing would change, why the aggressive push for it?

Yes quite.

TRAs - this will make no difference to your rights. It will also make no difference to trans people because all your space are belong to us anyway so hahahahahaha.

Women - actually we have some concerns about this and here is why ...

The government - let's push this through!

Something is very wrong here.

When is the last time you got your birth certificate out? You're not even actually supposed to produce it ... When you say it's just a big fuss about nothing people can't believe that that's true and they think obviously I'm pushing an agenda. But really there are more radical beliefs that I have about gender and about transfeminism than whether we should be able to change our birth certificate. Changing our birth certificate won't affect anything.

Ahh I see this a lot. 'Its nothing', won't affect anything, big fuss about nothing, etc etc. If it really was nothing, and nothing would change, why the aggressive push for it? If noone ever asks to see birth certificates (which tbf, is quite true, but this is not just about birth certificates) and this push for self ID is simply only about birth certificates, then why are activists so determined to get this changed? Also, 'transsexual' peopl an get a GRC easily anyway. Its those who would struggle to get a diagnosis of dysphoria that would haven issue, and if they do not have sex dysphoria, then why the need for a GRC anyway?

Yes, absolutely pencils.

And the trans inquiry launched in 2015 found evidence of trans girls who were 18 or whatever who transitioned at 16, who were being asked really inappropriate questions about whether or not they were planning to have sex reassignment surgery and they hadn't even had sex yet.

I really don't know what to make of this.

What is the relevance of whether a young person has had sex or not? Why are the questions 'inappropriate' when applying for a GRC? Surely these questions will already have been raised in consultation with the gender identity specialist. If the implication is that the question should not be asked because the applicant is very young, then are they really mature enough to apply for a GRC based on an intention to live in their acquired gender for the rest of their life?

Things have moved on. It was a very progressive piece of legislation at its time. It's not so much now, very few trans people use it. What it requires is you have to have lived in your acquired gender for 2 years, which again is quite difficult to prove. So they go on stuff like when you changed your name, whether you're in work, to prove that you're living appropriately. Juliet Jakes writes about this. It was quite common, I think it's less so now, to see trans women working in charity shops, because if you've got a volunteer job, that would fulfil your requirements. You have to show payslips, or things like payslips, that show consistently use of mrs or miss or ms. So you have to show life evidence, thenyou also have to have two medical reports. And you have to answer about surgery.

From what I understand, being able to hold down a job in the acquired gender used to be a condition for surgery. It's not required for a GRC. Surgery isn't required either. As Shon says, you just have to 'answer about surgery'.

GIRES say If you have not had any surgery then the report must explain clearly as to the reason why. This could be because you are currently still waiting for surgery on a waiting list, or you aren’t medically able to or for any other reasons, but an explanation has to be included as to why this is so.

But yeah, payslips, or things like payslips, that show consistently use of mrs or miss or ms.

Or passport, drivers licence, bank statements, utility bills, letters from employer or college etc. It's recommended you send 5 or 6 docs to cover the 2 years. The horror!

I hope they don't go on consistent use of mrs, miss or ms though. That would be unfair. I can't get companies to consistently use ms no matter how many times I tell them. From everything I've read, the panel want to see docs in the new name, not title. Although I suppose they might be a bit if everything said mr.

Which as Shon is a lawyer, is surely Shon being deliberately misleading.

It's been a principle of international law. For geeks who care, it's the Yogyakarta Principles, which is an international legal agreement on gender and sexuality, and then European Council resolution 2048 has set the international standard that trans people should be able to have a mechanism for declaring their own gender in a demedicalised process.

The Yogyakarata Principles is not an International Legal agreement. A principle is not a legal principle until its settled Law, these principles are set out as what they would LIKE to be law.

I've heard MPs pretending this is Human Rights Law, Scottish in particular, now Shon is pretending it is International Law.

When trans women are aiming for feminity a lot of it is about safety and about allowing us access to those spaces.

Yep, couldn't be more blatant. He's really about trying to take away our right to saying no to men in our spaces.

Well, I thank Shon for the revealing contribution. I thank Shon for explaining, with clarity, that the aim is to make all women's spaces available to obvious males. I thank Shon for the admission that trans males so rarely pass that the transactivist agenda must dissolve women's protections over and above achieving legal self ID. It's rare to see a transactivist being honest about this. Thanks for the honesty, Shon.

Exactly it.

TRAs (break something, in this case the law)

Also TRAs - Oh look, it's broken anyway so we may as well just get rid of it entirely.

When SF talks about having to perform femininity in order to access women's spaces, it makes me wonder if, once self ID gets in, SF would no longer even bother trying to pass and would dress as a stereotypical man does.

I definitely think this is the case for many trans identified males.

Shon says Your legal sex is a watery concept in Engish law.

It's more accurate to say that our legal sex has been watered down in English law by the GRA and the EA.

This was done very quietly and it's taken a few years for us to notice. We've noticed now, because over the last decade or so, increasing use has been made of the loopholes and legal fudge created by this legislation to erode women's rights.

Hence the fuss.

Lots of us are now resisting any further watering down of legal sex because we can see it's bad for our rights, safety and wellbeing. Lots of us would like legal sex to be a much more water tight concept in the law.

It's interesting that they had nothing to say about Sarah Ditum's contributions. She managed to get some substance into her comments, despite being constantly talked over and interrupted.

When SF talks about having to perform femininity in order to access women's spaces, it makes me wonder if, once self ID gets in, SF would no longer even bother trying to pass and would dress as a stereotypical man does.

I do think that there are very few mtf that pass anyway, and I actually think that, in general, ftm pass better (once they've been on hormones for a while).

Oh the wokeness.