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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Munroe Bergdorf 'What Makes a Woman' Channel 4 16/5

415 replies

R0wantrees · 16/05/2018 14:38

Extract from Radio Times:
www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-05-16/what-makes-a-woman-review-munroe-bergdorf-transgender-activist-debate/

"There are more moments of vulnerability when Bergdorf attends a discussion by a feminist group called We Need To Talk. There’s a real sense of menace in the air as transgender people gather outside to protest the meeting of so-called TERFS – Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists – who believe trans women are not female but are in fact men threatening to infiltrate women’s space.

Bergdorf is extremely articulate in one to one interviews so it’s a shame she doesn’t feel able to stay and debate them, but it’s also understandable – the atmosphere inside the meeting is toxic and she’s surrounded on all sides.

“When we [see] events like this, which directly are designed to deny [transgender women’s] very identities and the fact that we even exist, it’s extremely hurtful and concerning,” she says as she leaves. But she later sits down with one of the organisers, Venice Allan (aka Dr Radfem, just in case you were in any doubt).

They have an interesting debate about female and transgender rights, but it ends tellingly with the good Dr declaring “feminism is about women!” when surely feminism is about equality....

Concludes:
What Makes a Woman provides a valuable grounding in the ins and outs of the transgender debate for those of us who could use it – but it’s also a profile of a intriguing, sensitive, likeable person who is herself still on a journey of discovery."

What Makes a Woman is on tonight, Wednesday 16th May, at 10pm on Channel 4 and available afterwards on All4

OP posts:
BewitchedBotheredandBewildered · 16/05/2018 23:25

Shame they couldn't find a bunch of production staff that are female like Danielle Muscato!

HelenaDove · 16/05/2018 23:24

I spotted at least one plus size model in that fashion show which was great.

JoanSummers · 16/05/2018 23:23

That I must be made aware of all language and content used within the film. And that I must narrate and present the entire feature.

MB is going to regret saying that when some faction or other of TAs takes offence.

2rebecca · 16/05/2018 23:20

I think MB didn't realise that women aren't always passionate playful and receptive to flattery. That's a man's idealised woman as toy thing

Picassospaintbrush · 16/05/2018 23:19

The penis is personal.

Ok then.

chicklingpixies · 16/05/2018 23:17

Oh and the Lucy Mangan review is pretty spot on. The Grauniad is slowly back-pedalling Grin

TheLastMermaid · 16/05/2018 23:15

What kind of science is that? Based on the brain scan and a questionnaire?

But even then, MB didn't 'fit' the female category, but the trans one.

Also, "I feel like I'm a woman, so I'm going to have surgery to remove.. my forehead?! ... but I won't tell you about my penis because it's personal?" If MB had transitioned (in the traditional sense), I strongly suspect they'd be keen to tell us so. And if you're making a personal essay style doc about being a trans woman, surely that's central?

LizzieSiddal · 16/05/2018 23:13

On Twitter, Munroe says

Before we started production, I made the requests with Antiodote and Channel 4 that the director and majority of production staff must be female. That I must be made aware of all language and content used within the film. And that I must narrate and present the entire feature.

2rebecca · 16/05/2018 23:13

I was pleasantly surprised by the fairly neutral tone of that. MB would be OK if MB was happy with being a trans woman rather than insisting on being a woman and the self I'd crap and being a woman with a penis nIt all seemed so artificial and appearance focussed. Does MB have a real job?

HelenaDove · 16/05/2018 23:13

Im watching again cos i missed the first half hour BLIMEY the surgery.

chicklingpixies · 16/05/2018 23:11

Crikey, MB really really wants to be a woman and cannot possibly settle foronly being trans. There seems to be this assumption that you start out as a man then you are trans and then you are a woman. Utterly deluded and misguided and very sad (oh and infuriating but having every bone in your face broken to look more feminine?! GRIM)

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2018 23:11

Final para of the review

So, does society force you into being a woman if you don’t identify as masculine? We surely need, then, a sequel: what makes a man?

Pretty spot on.

HelenaDove · 16/05/2018 23:10

She says she found it hard to deal with her leg hair at school Well so did i But because im XX woman i was called gorilla and all sorts of nasty names. DM wouldnt let me shave.

As a woman in her 40s i now have to deal with chin hair as well

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2018 23:10

Did they give any detail on what that means?

No. It was Science. And far too complicated for a lady brain to understand.

NotTerfNorCis · 16/05/2018 23:09

Missed the bit with the brain scan, what was it? MB has a trans brain? Did they give any detail on what that means?

Ereshkigal · 16/05/2018 23:07

I'm sure we will! Will watch on catch up tomorrow.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2018 23:07

I will be interested to hear what Bergdof thought of it...

Thankyouverymuch1 · 16/05/2018 23:06

much more balanced than I was expecting.

MrsWooster · 16/05/2018 23:05

Yes, itsallgoingtobefine!

spontaneousgiventime · 16/05/2018 23:05

Terfing Agree, I've been following the hashtag. Not supportive of MB or what MB had to say. That's trans and women.

DJLippy · 16/05/2018 23:04

Why doesn't anyone break down the vagina claim. Vulva + clitoris + falopian tubes + uterus + ovaries + cervix = vagina.

Vagina is not a space for a penis. It's not a wound. Vagina's are awesome. It's where we all came from....

MrsWooster · 16/05/2018 23:04

I'm glad MB has found a way of living that feels more congruent to them but they can cordially fuck off if they think it's ok to dictate terms on what's ok for women based on their 27 years of life, incorporating being male, male gay, out male gay, trans identifying man, person identifying a
S a woman.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2018 23:04

Can't help wondering if some of the requested females involved in the making of that were (or became) terfs...

bialystockandbloom · 16/05/2018 23:04

"If I had to say what makes a woman... it's all of us". Truly profound. Yep that's totally it. Nailed it. Yes it's not the XX chromosomes, the uterus, the Fallopian tubes, the periods, the menopause, nope none of that. You're a woman because you say you are. Not.

Laughable programme, massive own goal. Wtf are C4 thinking?

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