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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Munroe Bergdorf 'What Makes a Woman' Channel 4 16/5

415 replies

R0wantrees · 16/05/2018 14:38

Extract from Radio Times:
www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-05-16/what-makes-a-woman-review-munroe-bergdorf-transgender-activist-debate/

"There are more moments of vulnerability when Bergdorf attends a discussion by a feminist group called We Need To Talk. There’s a real sense of menace in the air as transgender people gather outside to protest the meeting of so-called TERFS – Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists – who believe trans women are not female but are in fact men threatening to infiltrate women’s space.

Bergdorf is extremely articulate in one to one interviews so it’s a shame she doesn’t feel able to stay and debate them, but it’s also understandable – the atmosphere inside the meeting is toxic and she’s surrounded on all sides.

“When we [see] events like this, which directly are designed to deny [transgender women’s] very identities and the fact that we even exist, it’s extremely hurtful and concerning,” she says as she leaves. But she later sits down with one of the organisers, Venice Allan (aka Dr Radfem, just in case you were in any doubt).

They have an interesting debate about female and transgender rights, but it ends tellingly with the good Dr declaring “feminism is about women!” when surely feminism is about equality....

Concludes:
What Makes a Woman provides a valuable grounding in the ins and outs of the transgender debate for those of us who could use it – but it’s also a profile of a intriguing, sensitive, likeable person who is herself still on a journey of discovery."

What Makes a Woman is on tonight, Wednesday 16th May, at 10pm on Channel 4 and available afterwards on All4

OP posts:
JoanSummers · 16/05/2018 21:07

please let there be a comeback from Venice. Let her show MB up for the real person MB is.

She doesnt need a comeback really. I doubt very many people will be watching who don't already take one view (transwomen are women!) or the other (they're men).

But of any who haven't gone either way yet, I don't think MB comes across as genuine at all - just a vain 'not-even-a-reality-tv-star'. MB is not a sympathetic character.

theaveragewife · 16/05/2018 20:58

The clip makes it look hopeful, but the ending portrays the way in which C4 will cut it - sympathetically towards the TRA. Part of me hopes this is enough to make people question wtf is going on, it will give enough visibility to the issue and lend a sympathetic slant to gender critical feminists as the underdogs.

We know the general public love calling out bullshit and there’ll be plenty of it tonight so I’m hopeful not for the immediate future, but the one just ahead. I’m also wine numbed as I also didn’t sleep after the genderquake debate. Wine

NoseringGirl · 16/05/2018 20:53

As in, MB will get the final word in whatever is shown.

NoseringGirl · 16/05/2018 20:52

Judging by what MB has said about MB's control over the production. I doubt any sort of good argument Venice would have made will make the final edit.

Tinlegs · 16/05/2018 20:51

Please, please let there be a comeback from Venice. Let her show MB up for the real person MB is.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 16/05/2018 20:14

The Venice/Munro clip really clearly illustrates 'woman as female human' versus 'woman as make up and boobs'. Munro sits there lecturing a woman about feminism, speaking in a man's voice but feeling entitled to do so because of Munro's performance of traditional patriarchally approved femininity. Made it very very clear what this whole battle is about.

TwittleBee · 16/05/2018 20:09

So let me get this right... a man dedicated what a documentary about women must contain and who can work on it and that he must be the centre of that "documentary" ....

Munroe Bergdorf 'What Makes a Woman' Channel 4 16/5
JoanSummers · 16/05/2018 20:04

Oh the sad sad music and crocodile tears.

On Genderquake the other day I was thinking how sat down, not saying anything, Bergdorf almost passes.

This video shows otherwise. All that money spent on vanity and MB is still clearly identifiable in the cold light of day.

BeyondPink · 16/05/2018 19:18

I assume every transwoman in a UK prison (the ones with GRCs just as much as the SIers) is there for not paying their TV licence...?

raisinsraisins · 16/05/2018 19:16

MB thinks that women who don't want transwomen in their spaces are transphobic, as she believes this implies that transwomen are potential rapists etc.

This is what makes her not a woman! From a young age, girls know to be wary of men in vulnerable places. This does of course not mean that all men are rapists, but that they have the potential that they could be.

Jeanhatchet · 16/05/2018 19:14

The quote "there are no statistics to suggest that trans women are a threat to anybody"

Content warning:

Bethany Hill was murdered in 2016 by Kayleigh Woods. Kayleigh Woods is a trans woman who then lied saying she found Bethany dead.

Prior to the murder Woods had "joked" about the killing by enacting torture upon a barbie doll which was subsequently performed on the victim. This involved stripping her naked and tying her up with tape by binding her wrists and ankles together. Then repeatedly slashing at her with a large knife. Then finally slitting her throat.

There's your statistic.

BeyondPink · 16/05/2018 19:08

Great video with Venice, although not entirely happy with the open ending after MBs statement. A statement that can be countered, quite easily, actually MB.

sportinguista · 16/05/2018 19:07

Call me old fashioned but I always believed it was XX chromosomes, the requisite reproductive bits and of course being an adult, not being a bloke in a frock with enough plastic surgery to qualify as a lego person...

terryleather · 16/05/2018 19:05

Identifies I trust all involved curtsied when in MB's rarefied lady presence

Moonkissedlegs · 16/05/2018 19:03

I await 'What Makes a Man' with baited breath.

IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 16/05/2018 19:02

Therealposie

Oh God, she just (MB) does not get what Venice is saying. Aaaaargh

BeyondPink · 16/05/2018 18:59

Identifies, I read that with the M&S music and voice... Grin

IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 16/05/2018 18:58

terry

Ah, so kind to bestow her benificence upon us

therealposieparker · 16/05/2018 18:58

VENICE. Doing really really well. www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10155928365721939/?fref=mentions

therealposieparker · 16/05/2018 18:57
IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 16/05/2018 18:57

Oh but this is not any boring old woman. This is a beeyoutiful woman. A better woman than you or I.

SardineReturns · 16/05/2018 18:51

"Before we started production, I made the requests with Antiodote and Channel 4 that the director and majority of production staff must be female."

Why? Meaning what? "Femme"? IDing as female for the duration of filming? It's meaningless. A majority female group could mean literally any bunch of any sort of people.

terryleather · 16/05/2018 18:49

Before we started production, I made the requests with Antiodote and Channel 4 that the director and majority of production staff must be female.

Fuck off "Lady" Bountiful...I don't think there's enough Gin in the world to make this seem like an edifying viewing choice.

LoislovesStewie · 16/05/2018 18:30

Sardine, that is so true. I am sick and tired of being ignored, in fact I feel very angry, and this is just sending me into orbit. When will we have the what makes a man issue?

AbsintheFriends · 16/05/2018 18:27

Can't watch it either. I know I'll be so pissed off I won't sleep and that will piss me off even more.

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