Being told to lighten up - how do you respond?

Oldman, you have absolutely no idea of how vulnerable a woman is, when she is generally smaller, lighter and weaker than any random aggressive young man,
and is also, and this is important too
carrying her two-year-old child on her back in a child carrier.

Oldman, you have no idea at all about women's lived and living experience.

Questions are attacks now are they. Ok then.

Do you mean your question about whether I've been on the receiving end of threatening behaviour from men whilst caring for my children? Yes I have. And I have been physically attacked by men without provocation or warning as well, although thankfully not whilst I was caring for children.

I've not told you you can't speak, I think you're confusing me with someone else.

I didn't say you did. It was thebewilderness. Precipitating this train wreck of a thread. But yes, your posts are repeated attacks. I answered your questions by the way (which were more insinuations I was lying, btw). You've three times neglected to answer mine, which are simply the same ones you've been asking me.

There's no way a woman holding a baby would actually follow though on any threat of physical violence, and the young man in question would know it. It's an empty threat that has no weight.

She's not expected to follow through. For Heaven's sake nobody wants violence. Telling someone to "fuck off" who makes a comment about kicking a football at your child is just a basic warning to back off. And it's not absurd. It's my experience that showing a bit of counter-aggression works. Maybe just accept that we disagree and move on? Is that acceptable?

Obvs I wasn’t there, but but you seriously believe they meant to harm your child? Sounds to me like the sort of “score 5 points if you hit the next person to walk by” banter than teenagers engage in. Which doesn’t mean they are going to kick a ball at anyone. Anyhow, since they’d moved out of your way to start with what’s the likelihood?

The likelihood is very low. Though OP's husband is likely correct that they wouldn't have said it if he was there.

Citation: I have a Y-chromasome and therefore insight into the evil that is "manly manliness". ¯\(ツ)/¯

I've not told you you can't speak, I think you're confusing me with someone else. And I haven't "attacked" you, grow up, I've asked you questions.

There's no way a woman holding a baby would actually follow though on any threat of physical violence, and the young man in question would know it. It's an empty threat that has no weight. It's absurd to suggest it as a strategy for responding to such mindless petty intimidation.

Well now that you have mansplained this I just cannot think for the life of me why the OP did not threaten to beat those boys up the way a manly man would.

Obvs I wasn’t there, but but you seriously believe they meant to harm your child? Sounds to me like the sort of “score 5 points if you hit the next person to walk by” banter than teenagers engage in. Which doesn’t mean they are going to kick a ball at anyone. Anyhow, since they’d moved out of your way to start with what’s the likelihood?

Why they’d be playing across the path rather than on the park itself is another issue.

The point is that how women respond is different to how men respond to aggression from other men. Due to obvious differences in size/strength and due to be obviously constrained by holding a baby/child, or being pregnant. Do you really think that the young man in this example would have genuinely been intimidated by threats of violence?

Well obviously I do or I wouldn't be advising it. Showing a willingness to fight back defuses more situations than it causes. And again, being a man doesn't mean that getting into a fight doesn't carry a high risk of permanent physical injury. It very much does. And in fact they're more likely to beat up a male than a woman. Especially with a child. It's not about winning a fight, it's about stopping it before it starts.

You've twice attacked me about my experience and I've twice answered it. How many times have you been physically threatened by a gang of people in public? How many times have you been physically attacked by same? For me, I've been threatened on many occasions. And attacked on several. Being male didn't stop that. But showing a willingness to fight back HAS prevented attacks on several occasions. And let us not forget the OP isn't talking about a fight. It's just about getting people to back off verbally. And if you don't agree with me that's fine. But telling me I shouldn't speak is not.

No. Actually I don't see where I made anything about me. In fact, I tried to leave it with just my advice but attacks like "why are you speaking at all" kept coming. Very hostile.

The point is that how women respond is different to how men respond to aggression from other men. Due to obvious differences in size/strength and due to be obviously constrained by holding a baby/child, or being pregnant. Do you really think that the young man in this example would have genuinely been intimidated by threats of violence?

Do you see way up thread where you made it all about what you would do, OldMan?

That is where and how you derailed the post. Failure to stick the flounce, -3.

Yes. Minus the child. Again, how about you?

Or we could just stop derailing the thread and let it be what it was meant to be - contributions from different people without anyone being attacked for it.

Whilst minding your own business in a park in the daytime whilst carrying your child? That has happened to you on more occasions than you can count?

I'm trying to disengage here. The only thing I did was give my honest advice based on my experience and knowledge, to the OP. Why do the three of you have to keep picking on this and derail the thread. In answer to your question, I've been threatened by "young men" on more occasions than I can count. And physically assaulted on several. How about you?

Do you often get threatened by young men whilst you're carrying your young child, @OldmanOfTheWeb2?

The question is, why are you speaking at all?

Correction: One last post on this as you replied whilst I was typing. For the same reason, I hope, that everyone else is - I'm trying to be helpful to the OP.

Erm. Men are more likely to be beaten up because men get into these situations with each other more. Once already in this kind of confrontation, I really don't think you can make any claims as to the likelihood of the woman being physically attacked. And you're certainly better able to take such risks as someone with male size, weight and muscle mass, and without a small child to protect. No, it seems you don't get it at all, I'm afraid

This will be my last post on this as I don't want to derail the thread and make it all about this. We're all offering our advice. I offered mine and if you want to claim authority from having some female insight that I don't have, I'll point out that I have a pretty good handle on how men like this think. A guy is a great deal less likely to start physically attacking a woman (especially with a child) than he is a man, both equally mouthing off. Yes - really.

As to my better being able to take such risks because I'm a male - no. Firstly, it's more likely to get physical so I am at greater risk. Secondly, we're plenty vulnerable. We're made out of the same stuff you are. Getting into a fight is a risk for anyone. It's very easy for permanent physical injury to result in a fight. Being a bloke doesn't make the risk small. It's still a big risk. The point of all this is that a bit of verbal aggression makes a boundary. Shows you are ready to defend your child. It works. And I've seen it work plenty well when done by women, too.

But that's my last post on it. OP can file my advice along with everyone else's and consider it or not as she wishes.

I added the "Speaking as a bloke" very deliberately for this reason.
The question is, why are you speaking at all?

Whilst I respect your experience, statistically speaking, a man is more likely to be beaten up than a woman. I'd say it's extremely unlikely that he's going to physically attack you in that scenario.

Erm. Men are more likely to be beaten up because men get into these situations with each other more. Once already in this kind of confrontation, I really don't think you can make any claims as to the likelihood of the woman being physically attacked. And you're certainly better able to take such risks as someone with male size, weight and muscle mass, and without a small child to protect. No, it seems you don't get it at all, I'm afraid.

Not intended as a criticism, but this does nicely illustrate the typical male response to such a situation the problem being that it is different when a female makes this response they might back down, or hurl more verbal abuse, or actually resort to physical violence.

I added the "Speaking as a bloke" very deliberately for this reason. It's because a clear back the fuck off signal is how we commonly deal with threats and posturing like that and I genuinely believe that it's typically the best response. I've seen women tear strips off men like this very effectively. Whilst I respect your experience, statistically speaking, a man is more likely to be beaten up than a woman. I'd say it's extremely unlikely that he's going to physically attack you in that scenario. It doesn't have to be explicit as to method or even a threat. It can just be "You come near my kid - !" So long as there's some strong "back off" sentiment behind it.

Anyway, we don't have to agree. We're all just giving our advice to the OP who will have to choose what works for her. Women can use aggression too. It's not about physical size. This is just my take.

Not on the same topic at all really but I didn't think this deserved a thread of its own.

I was walking to the station yesterday and a man I was passing said, "Lovely hair!" to me. He was probably 60. I'm 45 but probably looked younger to him because I'm slim and I was wearing sunglasses.

I just smiled and said thank you, but it did get me thinking a bit. I genuinely don't believe he meant anything by it - he was, in his head, just being friendly and saying something nice. But at the same time, he would never have said anything similar to a man, or indeed to me if a man had been with me.

I guess it just reminded me how we're forced into there interactions all the time. But then again, maybe if I'd been a man getting out of a Porsche, he'd have said, "Nice car!", because he's a friendly guy.

Once you're aware you can't stop being.

Anyway apols for derailing, and OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It must have been really frightening and upsetting.

they're just ordinary blokes

Yes, very common in England to be sure. Have not had that happen at all in Australia. But used to get told to "smile love" all the time in England.

Hi yes I have to say when I came across the group of men being verbally abusive to me when I had young children I wasn't going to wisecrack or really speak back as if they are that sort you just don't know what they will do next:

So OP I would take it as a threat and you have a young child so getting out of the situation seems the first thing to try.

My comment on you not being old was irrelevant. I think what was relevant was the group and individual behaviour - sexist offensive behaviour.

"I would have immediately told him: "You do and it wont be the only ball thing that gets kicked, pal!"

Speaking as a bloke, here."
Not intended as a criticism, but this does nicely illustrate the typical male response to such a situation the problem being that it is different when a female makes this response they might back down, or hurl more verbal abuse, or actually resort to physical violence.

When I was younger, I did a few times make a typically 'male' response to such threats, and in a few cases (thankfully I didn't get thumped), I was seen as the one being threatening, because I was female, so seen as more aggressive for acting in the same way as many blokes would. Two blokes, after all, can size each other up and puff and threaten, and back down without either one losing face, but a chap backing down when faced with a similar response from a female, he is going to look bad whatever he does. She is, after all, only a woman, and if he can't get a woman to back down, what sort of chap is he?

I was told to "shut up" in a very threatening manner in a coffee shop the other day. I had pointed out to the older man in front of me that he was being very rude and it was uncalled for. he was very angry at the staff for no good reason.

Next thing he turns on me. Told me to shut up and that if I questioned him again I would come off worse.

I am pretty pleased at my response and it is all the reading I do on here that helped me with my lightening quick response. I raised an eyebrow at him and said "oh wow, I wouldn't dare - you're a man after all..."

The man directly behind me started laughing.

I am in no doubt that he wouldn't have spoken to me like that if I was a man. he deliberately tried to silence me. I wasn't having it. he was an arse hole and worst of all - he joined his wife and grandchild outside directly after. What a family man he was...