Girl Guides Panel discussion at Speakers house.... woman, male, woman, male, male, male....

And the picture of a man wearing a pair of fake breasts.

Well at least the picture should reassure those people who were worried about lots of MPs being convinced by stonewall in parliament.
Not a lot of MPs there.

This is absolutely being pushed from the top down

Because it's not about demand from transgender children. How many boys have gender issues and want to be in the guides? We are talking very small numbers.

I think the reasons this is happening are varied. When I'm feeling charitable, I think it's about controlling a female space. Anything for or about women and girls is a magnet for TIM for validation and control.

I do think organisations, particularly those caring for girls, need to take a closer look at the trans umbrella and decide if they are happy with the motivation of some who want to change policies and procedures.

Miranda Yardley is very good on Bunce.

mirandayardley.com/en/cross-dressing-all-the-way-to-the-top-where-all-the-transvestites-have-gone/

So you have been warned, open your mouth and your career is over.

This is the difference between those structurally disadvantaged and those who play at it - the former have no voice at present and certainly little influence. The latter are able to be poacher turned gamekeeper (or more aptly gatekeeper) and hence set the rules and the playing field for their dominance - it's like watching Patriarchy in Action in another guise by throwing Trans rights under their wheel

You'll notice that the Guiding policy is top down; being imposed from above despite extensive grassroots objections. It's because all these third sector orgs are being led by posh postmodernists. That's why nowhere in the corporate third sector world is safe from this shit - from Amnesty and Oxfam and Save The Children to the Guides - all taken over by social constructionist bullshit. It's all connected.

This!! They seem rotten to the core now and not to be trusted. Looks like we have to start again with feminist led charities, services and refuges….the existing third sector seems mostly all tainted (still waiting with baited breath to see what Womensaid's trans review throws up as the govt has said it will adopt same)

www.stonewall.org.uk/news/stonewall-reveals-britain’s-top-trans-inclusive-employers

www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/get-involved-ind-and-comm/trans-allies-programme

He has introduced a trans visibility policy at Credit Suisse, and had Stoenwall in training on it, he reverse mentors the board on it. So effectively he is an charge of all the rules about gender, he offers little chats to anyone with questions. So if you find him in the ladies, smile and suck it up, no one is going to support you if you look at him the wrong way.
He said this on Twitter;

Could not agree more, you look amazing Paris and be proud of who you are - don't worry about those sad enough to be filled with hate, they will sadly never amount to anything anyway - you go girl!!

twitter.com/PippaBunce/status/949597497147691008

So you have been warned, open your mouth and your career is over.

Trans activists have gone after so many different female centred organisations. I don't see how it is possible to read this as anything other than an attack on women. Stonewall was quoted on another thread about this that they would show how women's refuges had been trans inclusive for years. I find that so sinister; Firstly, of course the very few people with dysphoria may have been using these services already. Before the "trans umbrella" they were not perceived as threatening. Secondly, yes they all do seem to include trans women in their policies. Almost as if they'd already been approached about this issue? And thirdly. Trans men. Why is it OK for TRAs to exclude them?

@Picassospaintbrush

It makes my skin crawl to imaging working for Bunce - amazing how his behaviour can be seen as normal

He has made it impossible for any one he works with to speak on this

would you elaborate on this - very curious - and of course his behaviour is very predicable and controlling

Closing down Guides or making them unusable for lots of girls, and a place where female guiding leaders can no longer connect and chat. Every space where women can speak to each other without male supervision/spying seems to be under attack.

They want girls to grow up thinking of it as normal to have no connection to the women around them. I think it's a backlash because women's history is becoming more spoken about and women are becoming more involved in politics.

And obv for some it's a fetish. I think it's always worth naming that.

There's no way to protest except by leaving (they win anyway). Only a legal challenge could do it and who has the cash for that?

Take the money, the infrastructure and force the girls only organisations to start from scratch

It's just aimed at closing down Guides right? Stop a new generation of confident girls and women?

Well yes, children please be yourselves. Do not let people convince you that being yourself means you have to take drugs and have surgeries, or that your personal tastes mean you are actually the opposite sex.

Feminists have no issue at all with people being 'gender non-conforming', many feminists are this themselves! Unless the 'hate' Bex is talking about is coming from homophobic men mind, then I could agree that there is a fairly large amount of hatred. Though its still 'terfs' who get the blame. Gotta wonder why that is

Tweet from Bex Stinson (Head of Stonewall's Trans Inclusion)

Some Scouts have been mixed for a long time. In our case, both Cub packs are mixed and have been since they were set up (decades ago).

We have 2 Scout packs, and they are split by gender: 50+ years ago, it was only a boys troupe when it started, then a girls troupe was established about 30-odd years ago and they were eventually allowed to share the Den (as their own troupe within the group), and the Cubs followed that and were mixed from the start, with a second Cub pack being formed due to demand and also being mixed.

The Scouts (we have both Scouts and Venturers together, so 12-18 age range) go on Summer Camp separately (the girls go down as the boys come home to the same place), but camp alongside each other for Easter Camp and do a lot of activities together at other times in the year (and they all help to load the 40' truck to go on summer camp, and do the boat maintenance in winter, etc), while having weekly meetings and other activities completely separate. So everyone knows what to expect going into it.

When I was a Guide, there was an occasional summer camp where the DS or DBro of a Leader came along as well - they were Scouts and they stayed in their own tents with the Leaders tents between theirs and those of the Guides, and parents were informed beforehand. I would be very unhappy as either a Leader (and I was one before I left Guiding at Uni) or a parent if I wasn't informed of DCs who are not born as girls were staying in the same tents as those who were. I don't think I would have a problem if DCs who were born as boys but who are trans and who are transitioning properly were able to join but stayed in their own tents until a complete transition was done (and that those DCs should be actively transitioning, not just saying that they feel they are a girl).

I am not the best at explaining myself, and particularly not in relation to the right words to use, so I hope I have not offended anyone in my clunkiness, but it does seem as though Girl Guiding UK is a bit daft on this one. (TG it is not a legal issue in Ireland yet).

If one went missing on a camp and they had no photos just what description would they give the police and people looking for the "girl"

Would they really risk missing finding the kid? when automatically people would rule out any boys they seen as irrelevant to statements...

I think the benefit of all this trans debate is it's showing up the unfitness for purpose of many groups that most had considered took safeguarding of children and girls seriously.

I think it's down to the dumbing down (read: postmodern obsession) in the academy. Graduates of elite institutions fill the top positions in corporations, institutions and everywhere else. Generally speaking, those that lean right go into industry or corporate work, right wing politics, or right wing media orgs. Those that lean liberal/left go into left wing politics, left wing media orgs, or third sector orgs. And these days, those that lean liberal/left have pomo-addled brains supplied by the dominant ideology in the academy.

You'll notice that the Guiding policy is top down; being imposed from above despite extensive grassroots objections. It's because all these third sector orgs are being led by posh postmodernists. That's why nowhere in the corporate third sector world is safe from this shit - from Amnesty and Oxfam and Save The Children to the Guides - all taken over by social constructionist bullshit. It's all connected.

It seems a very important issue for some adult males

Along with keeping individuals in pre-pubescent bodies while their chronological age increases...

Also, it's so unbelievably stupid because it's so easy to just ask parents on a standard form they have to sign before every residential trip (no need to out anyone if it's a standard question given out every single time). 'Are you happy to give consent for your child to sleep in mixed-sex accommodation?'. The problem is they KNOW the vast majority would tick the 'no' box if worded as clearly as this. They KNOW the vast majority of the population are against what they're trying to do secretly, by the back door. How can they not see this is the stuff of scandal?

Of course parents of girls would not consent to it, on the whole. One of the main attractions of guides for many is that its a same SEX environment, where their girls can go to be free of the male gaze, not be as self conscious, and just basically in short have space away from boys. If the girls, or the parents wanted mixed sex, surely they would chose scouts instead? Not sure how these things work mind, so there may not be a mixed sex scouts group available in some cases (I know I read that only some scouts are mixed, and thats only due to them having falling numbers?) but either way, they know most parents would say no, and thats why its stealth, thats pretty obvious. But also really really shitty.

Also, it's so unbelievably stupid because it's so easy to just ask parents on a standard form they have to sign before every residential trip (no need to out anyone if it's a standard question given out every single time). 'Are you happy to give consent for your child to sleep in mixed-sex accommodation?'. The problem is they KNOW the vast majority would tick the 'no' box if worded as clearly as this. They KNOW the vast majority of the population are against what they're trying to do secretly, by the back door. How can they not see this is the stuff of scandal?

As mentioned upthread, the scouts are above-board, honest and clear. They take the consent of children and parents seriously.

Of course it throws true transsexuals who just want to get on with their lives under the bus along with women and girls.

Quite.

How the hell do things that in any other circumstances would be creepy predatory and/or inappropriate suddenly become accepted when trans is stuck in front of it.

What predator with any sense wouldn't take one look at all this, put on a dress and claim to be trans?

Modern trans activism has created a group anyone can self-select into easily, that has become so untouchable people pointing out mass safeguarding failures are silenced and told they are bigots.

These policies require MORE safeguarding due diligence if anything, not less, precisely because of all of the above.

The whole GG fiasco makes me think #metoo and recent scandals about abuse have pushed the pendulum towards women and girls being believed and procedures to stop predators / abuse / assault being put in place and so the predators networks (we know they exist: Telford, Rotherham, police looking the other way for years) have decided the trans bandwagon is the perfect way to undermine all of that. Of course it throws true transsexuals who just want to get on with their lives under the bus along with women and girls.