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Original poster

Finding/ starting radfem groups

62 replies

Merchfach · 15/05/2018 09:37

I'm just back from a long weekend away with a group of women, most of whom would call themselves feminists, whom I've known for several years. I didn't see Genderquake so when some of the younger women (30s) started talking about it I stayed out of the generally pro-trans conversation until one of them said that Germaine Greer ought to be silenced. I piped up to say that she held a valid point of view that represented many women and that I found it worrying to hear women trying to silence other women. One of the younger ones said: 'You'll be saying transwomen aren't women next' and I agreed that I would. It was downhill from there. At some point I was accused of misgendering someone and two young women walked out shouting that I was hateful and should be ashamed of myself. I asked a third party to mediate so that we could see if we had any common ground that we could build from and was told the young women would not discuss this subject with me. So, no debate. There's a surprise!

Most of the other women don't understand why what I said was so offensive but assume I must have said something dreadful to warrant such a response from educated and on the whole pleasant young women. I don't imagine I'll be invited to participate in this group again which saddens me.

I don't feel bad for saying what I think but I do feel battered and there's a tiny part of me wondering whether I've got this all wrong. I know I'll bounce back and there are a couple of people I'm in touch with on line who'll help me do that. But what I could really do with now is a local radfem group: women whom I could meet up with for some eye contact and a coffee and a reassurance that I'm not the nazi dinosaur the handmaidens say I am.

I've googled for radical feminist groups in my area and found nothing. There's a feminist group at a university some distance away but I have a suspicion that it'll be full of handmaidens. If you're a member of a real rather than virtual group, how did you find each other? What should I google for? Any ideas on how to start something up?

OP posts:
Picassospaintbrush · 15/05/2018 20:59

dailycaller.com/2018/05/12/linguistic-minefield-of-politically-correct-tranny/

Snorwich, the writer, who is trans, pulls apart the US murder figures here which is really interesting, and also has no time for whiny trans people.

Its a good read - Leftist transgender people and their bald-headed, hairy-arm-pitted, pink-dyed-pubic-haired, non-binary friends (a gender identity, or lack thereof, by the way, that has no scientific backing) are doing more harm to the public perception of trans people than the most verbally abusive transphobic incel who is angry because they can’t get laid.

SarahJane73 · 15/05/2018 20:58

I found a local(ish) gender critical feminist group through attending a Woman's Place UK meeting. Other Mumsnetters who have attended WPUK meetings in parts of the country without existing gc feminist groups have still used the meetings as a opportunity to make connections with other local women and arrange further meetings with them.

MrsUnderwood · 15/05/2018 20:57

Gin for you!

Love the idea of a feminist salon. I guess if there’s nothing available to us we will have to start our own?

RealityHasALiberalBias · 15/05/2018 20:54

Exactly MrsUnderwood, though this wouldn’t be so much public assembly as private discussion. Rather like here, but face to face. Like a feminist salon!

I am drunk.

MrsUnderwood · 15/05/2018 20:22

@realityhasaliberalbias I think any group would have to be very much under the radar as it seems and public assembly of gender critical women is akin to a fucking Satanic Mass.

DJLippy · 15/05/2018 15:29

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3246322-A-Beginners-Guide-to-the-Transgender-Debate-A-Signpost-to-Useful-Mumsnet-Threads

This has got some good information. Puberty blockers and transing kids can be a great way into the debate. You could also ask them if they've heard of the 'cotton ceiling'. Lesbians being coerced/guilted into sex cannot be justified by anybody who wants to call themselves progressive.

Had a similar time with my sister who and things got quite heated. I had to have patience and speak about several different issues. These Youtubers helped me. Maybe if you want to chat online to some of these people you can use these.

Lesbians against trans rights

Transsexuals aganst trans rights

PatriarchyPersonified · 15/05/2018 15:05

Offred

Given the context of the discussion (a group of women discussing feminism) I assumed it went without saying that the OP was not viewed as a 'hysterical' woman. I also never used that phrase.

Why do you think that so many younger women (and men) become immiediatly defensive when confronted with gender critical ideas? Personally I'm on the fence but I suspect it's to do with the social media opinion bubble that we all live in to a degree.

It used to be that if you wanted to discuss controversial issues, you would regularly experience voices of people who disagree with you completely. Now we can cut ourself off from that almost completely, to the point where even mild disagreement seems shocking. People with less life experience are particularly vulnerable to this.

RealityHasALiberalBias · 15/05/2018 15:05

I would really love to start (or join) a group like this - but how? I've looked in my area and can't find anything like it.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2018 15:03

I forgot my other criterion for the sort of feminist group I'd like to join - no men. I occasionally go to mixed discussion groups, it really is true that men's voices tend to dominate. Can be bloody annoying trying to get a word in edgewise.

Offred · 15/05/2018 14:59

Are you aware that women are constantly dismissed by assumptions that the problem is that they are ‘hysterical’ all the bleeding time and why that makes your posts appear goady?

PatriarchyPersonified · 15/05/2018 14:48

Offred

Yes I did consider that, so I checked afterwards with my other colleagues (male and female) and apparently I came across as calm and reasonable.

Offred · 15/05/2018 14:45

PP have you considered that it may have been the way you said it?

Maybe said transwoman was just offended by the tone of what you said or the way in which you said it?

speakingwoman · 15/05/2018 14:40

PP may I just ask are you a man (not sure I am following)?

PatriarchyPersonified · 15/05/2018 14:36

Bertrand hello, it's good to hear from you as well. (I'm aware you are beings arcastic, but I'm not)

The suicide stats thing is a big bone of contention for me. I actually had it quoted at me in real life not so long ago by a relatively high profile trans-women (she has been in the papers, is a spokeswomen etc). I didn't really challenge her, just asked where the figures came from as they seemed very extreme. It was as if I had stolen her presents at Christmas. Cut me dead from the discussion and then refused to speak to me after the event. I think she would have made an even bigger scene if we weren't in a professional environment.

MrsUnderwood · 15/05/2018 14:28

I’d be up for a RL group too. I’m in a town with a big LGBT and student population so most groups are lib fem and don’t take kindly to GC views.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 15/05/2018 13:19

Thx for those links re stats BetsyM00

BertrandRussell · 15/05/2018 13:15

Don’t worry, PP’s here to mansplain........Grin. Have a cookie, PatriarchyPersonified!.

Where would we be without the menz, eh?

BetsyM00 · 15/05/2018 13:10

Here's the link from transgendertrend debunking the suicide info from trans groups:
www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

Original poster
Merchfach · 15/05/2018 13:02

I'm sure this kind of thing is happening to many of us. It must be hard if you're close to your family and they are closed to your pov.

In a strange way the complete fury of the response is reassuring because surely, if there was a real case to be made for self ID, or a good case for arguing that a man could become a woman, they would argue it. And if they argued it well enough I could be persuaded.

Anyway, thanks for the kind words and good to know others feel the same way.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2018 12:55

I'd love to find a real life feminist group. I think my only criterion would be the ability to discuss anything in a sensible, mature manner.

Original poster
Merchfach · 15/05/2018 12:52

Betsy, thank you. So there is no evidence to support the assertion that hundreds of trans people have been driven to suicide in the last decade by victimisation, violence and aggression?

I'm going to forward the GIDS link to the person who said that and ask her to show me where she obtained her statistics. In the nicest possible way, of course.

OP posts:
speakingwoman · 15/05/2018 12:47

also sorry to hear this happened. I'm cringing at the idea of you gradually realising they were angry with you whilst having to count down the hours till you could get away.

reminds of a time I went on a mountain walk and at one point failed to praise someone's dogs quickly enough and the owners rounded on me and started some kind of weird justification of their dogs' behaviour. I remember looking down the mountain and the distance from home was just so.....long....so....very.....long.....

never go on a long weekend with anyone who hasn't made a vow to live with you is my advice.

Original poster
Merchfach · 15/05/2018 12:46

Terribly sorry, PP. Didn't realise I had to be nice and lovely all the time. What a disgrace to womanhood I am, eh? Of course, it was all my fault and I could have handled the whole thing better.

There, do you feel better now?

OP posts:
BetsyM00 · 15/05/2018 12:46

Merchfach

The Gender Identity Development Service (Tavistock) have only seen one suicide in the last decade. They work with young people up to the age of 25. I archived the link as they have a habit of removing the info - I think the page now just says suicide is extremely rare.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20171207032817/gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20171207032817/gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

There was another young girl's suicide reported a few months ago, Leo?, whose mother had recently died - but presumably she was not a patient of GIDS at the time.

As far as I know, no-one is actively collating trans suicide statistics. Miranda Yardley requested research in this area in his submission to Maria Miller's committee:
mirandayardley.com/en/written-submission-to-the-transgender-equality-inquiry/

The 'studies' done by Stonewall and other pro-trans groups are highly flawed - you'll find lots of detail about this on transgendertrend.com.

speakingwoman · 15/05/2018 12:44

"You are being goady. Off with you"

I thought "Off with you" was quite nice. Have you got a Welsh accent? Because you can say "off with you" to me with a Welsh accent any time