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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The right to bare arms.....for women only

135 replies

whatnow123 · 14/05/2018 17:49

As a man reading some of these threads, the fear women have of male violence is greater than I realised.

Is a 2nd amendment, for women, a solution?

Pro gun women in America say the gun is the great equaliser. They say it makes them safer. I think it's a good argument.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2018 08:49

I'd rather have a protective, barky dog than a gun in my house

Yes. For one thing, a would-be aggressor is, I think, more likely to assess the dog as being willing to inflict harm than a woman.

I'm not sure if this thread was started with malign intent or just an idiotic idea from a man thinking about the problem of the mismatch between male and female strength and aggression from a naive masculine POV.

AngryAttackKittens · 15/05/2018 07:36

Anyone else thinking this is an attempt to get us all the say we want to be carrying Uzis around and mowing down men, and especially transpeople? So they can screenshot us and say, look those terfs really are a violent threat!

Yep, neither this nor the thread about being gay not being innate pass the sniff test. They must be so disappointed that nobody is taking the bait (because unlike them we're decent human beings).

squishee · 15/05/2018 07:32

Alternatively: Tiger Lady ;-) www.tigerlady.com

Potplant2 · 15/05/2018 07:31

Anyone else thinking this is an attempt to get us all the say we want to be carrying Uzis around and mowing down men, and especially transpeople? So they can screenshot us and say, look those terfs really are a violent threat!

Personally I agree with the poster who said she’d rather be raped than carry a gun. I mean that. I decided long ago that if it came to it I’d rather be killed than kill another human being. Perhaps that’s an odd perspective, or perhaps I’m just a natural pacifist. In any case, as others have said, when it comes down to it most people can’t shoot a person in anger. They need extensive and repeated training to overcome their natural impulses not to (in Vietnam, wasn’t it shown that nearly all the US soldiers aimed too high, above the heads of the enemy?).

A large part of my commitment to feminism is due to my absolute belief in nonviolence. I want a world in which everyone can feel safe. Guns make me both objectively and subjectively a lot less safe.

Potplant2 · 15/05/2018 07:26

No.

ISaySteadyOn · 15/05/2018 06:54

I always feel that all these ideas about ways women can protect themselves can so easily be tipped into blaming the woman for whatever happened to her. This one, for example could become 'but you had a gun, why didn't you use it?'
These are just ways to absolve violent men of responsibility as though their assaults are like a rainstorm and a gun is the umbrella.

AngryAttackKittens · 15/05/2018 03:49

Lots of people having guns may make some of those people feel safer, but it does so at the expense of everyone actually being less safe. So no, this is a stupid idea. Work on getting men to be less violent instead.

thebewilderness · 15/05/2018 02:10

I have often thought of getting a shotgun now that I live alone out in the woods but have never done so. Maybe someday I will.

thebewilderness · 15/05/2018 02:08

Guns create the illusion of safety but not the thing itself.

Years ago I had a Great Dane. So did my up the street a block neighbor and my down the block neighbor. We used to take our evening walkies together along with my Siamese cat.
When there was a spate of burglaries in the area it was as though there were an invisible barrier around our blocks that all the neighbors credited the dogs for. I think they were afraid of the cat myself. She was a fierce guard cat.

Fucketynamechanged · 15/05/2018 01:35

I don't want to carry a gun. Not least for the safety aspect of being a mother and then having a gun in my home which my child could potentially access and have a fatal incident with. It's bad enough keeping out of reach things like calpol... not sure where I would store one to be of any use to me whatsoever should I require it. I'm not going to have time to get out a ladder and unlock a cupboard am I?!

Simplest solution: men take the responsibility for NOT attacking women.

Pythagonal · 15/05/2018 01:25

I know my wife would, after being burgled she feels a lot more vulnerable at night when alone. Would a gun make her safer? Not sure. Would she feel safer. Definitely.

I'd rather have a protective, barky dog than a gun in my house. Especially one who looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. It's seriously scarey when they turn into Cujo. (Glances fondly sideways at upside down sleeping spaniel).

Lweji · 15/05/2018 01:13

actually 'feeling more safe' isperhaps not a good thing anyway, there's a reason we are afraid in certain situations, that's what makes us assess risk and act accordingly

Exactly.

I've done self-defense training, but the most important lesson was that the safest way was to avoid danger.
Even though I wasn't bad against much stronger men, my main strategy was to avoid direct physical contact. One real blow and I'd be done.
Danger awareness is more important than weapons or feeling safe.

spontaneousgiventime · 15/05/2018 00:22

Bare arms? Aint that for August time? As for guns - no, no, no, no, no.

SpareRibFem · 15/05/2018 00:17

So adjusting from this not being a dress code thread...

No no no just no

DN4GeekinDerby · 14/05/2018 23:30

Perceived safety is important and is an issue to deal with, but it is not the same thing as actual physical safety. Both must be dealt with.

To use the trans references already in this thread, telling trans people that they have a life expectancy in their 30s and that they have high risk of being attacked and killed, well - not shockingly, there is significant evidence that it causes higher rates of depression, anxiety, and a lot of other issues and some evidence that it's connected with the disturbingly high suicide rates. All of those perceived risks are not true in the UK, that does not stop their view of safety to be truly negatively affecting people's well-being. An open conversation about the actual physical safety issues while not dismissing the effects of the perceptions and their impact is important.

It also goes the other way. I read writings a while ago by women who trained in martial arts who were sexually assaulted or raped. There was a lot of discussion in their writing on how much they shamed and blamed themselves for not being able to fight them off because they feel they should have been able to do so. Many wrote about how this perception impacted their depression and identity. They had the skills everyone says should keep them safe, they were meant to be safe, but...and the same will likely be true with guns. Being honest about the limits of any protective preventative method is important as well because, in the end, while our perceptions of safety do impact how we interact with the world, our feelings won't protect us in the end and likely neither will guns for most people. It takes a lot of practice and training to use any of these under emergency conditions and even then it is not a guarantee. We need in place far better for safety than a gun can give us.

And, being tongue in cheek here, if you want to use Americans culture to justify the idea of only women having guns, you better take into account the multiple American communities that have a 'we take care of our own business' attitude. Does it not concern you at all whatnow123 that there are so many country songs celebrating women murdering men, sometimes simply for the men being accused of cheating? Gotta say, my American childhood certainly had quite a few violent women who, even the ones who hate that type of music, found those songs inspirational and no qualms discussing what they'd do to a man who crossed the line...and I know at least one of them tried.

whatnow123 do you really think women so infantile that we'd only ever use weapons to react rather than act out ourselves? I've seen no evidence to back that up. And if we're going by physical weakness and likelihood to be attacked, what about disabled people of both sexes? How about for dealing with elder abuse? What about children - one of the highest risk groups for abuse...how does your plan cope when the mother is violent, when it's the mother hurting the child or trying to get the child to hurt/kill themself or others? I've seen all of that and I would really rather not see that with guns involved.

Weapons don't reduce violence, they don't level the playing field, it does not equalize, they just give an advantage to those who have the ability and will to use them. That's not everyone and it certainly won't just be women who use them for self defense even if only women could legally get guns. Men would still get access either through trusting relationships with women or by force and some women are murderous assholes. While I get the appeal of guns to some, I don't think it's the solution to this due to the limits and risks of guns - if it did solve this or any other issue, the US would be a very different place. Really, I think any preventative weapon/fight-based measure will have more flaws that will backfire than benefits. It will work for some, but it won't for many more.

I'm all for bare arms though. My spotty arms are usually hidden in a fleece or denim shirts instead. I seem to keep sprouting new moles and more spots on my arms and shoulders now than I ever did as a teenager.

smithsinarazz · 14/05/2018 22:50

Yeah, stupid idea, i think all the reasons why have been covered.

Shall we talk about bare arms instead? I've got a nasty rash, but it's too hot to wear sleeves. Should I give a toss about revolting people with my manky skin?

powershowerforanhour · 14/05/2018 22:47

Hey girls we have nothing to fear but fear itself apparently! Those two women a week just need to not be scared and then they will be fine. Off with the cardies!

LassWiADelicateAir · 14/05/2018 22:32

This is such a stupid idea.

newtlover · 14/05/2018 21:46

actually 'feeling more safe' isperhaps not a good thing anyway, there's a reason we are afraid in certain situations, that's what makes us assess risk and act accordingly

thebewilderness · 14/05/2018 21:19

No, self defense training and deadly force are not just a few steps away on the ladder of force.

Physical force training is excellent exercise and keeps us practicing the moves over and over till we are capable of a trained response even when the adrenaline hits our system. In fact with adrenaline we are even more effective.
Weapons training unfortunately does not work that way. The adrenaline charge makes us shake so much that hitting the broad side of a barn is dubious proposition. Paintball guns are a fairly good training aid for emergency response if a sidearm is part of your daily equipment.
Still, having a gun in the house or the purse does not make women any safer, if statistics are to be believed it makes us less so.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 14/05/2018 20:57

"The solution to bare arms is a cardigan."

Grin
SilverDoe · 14/05/2018 20:51

This can’t be a real suggestion right?? Confused

CardsforKittens · 14/05/2018 20:43

I'm holding out for castration at birth and compulsory hormone treatment for all males. I'll settle for nothing less.

Guns indeed.

R0wantrees · 14/05/2018 20:39

whatnow123
A dog may be better. Ours is as soft as they come but has a big bark so an effective deterrent. Good company too if you or your wife are ever on your own.

SardineReturns · 14/05/2018 20:28

"As a man reading some of these threads, the fear women have of male violence is greater than I realised."

You've never noticed how women go around in gangs on nights out, go to the toilet together, get cabs home rather than night buses, tend to agree to go back to blokes houses only if their mate(s) go too etc etc etc?

You've also not watched telly and seen the constant tidal wave of depictions of women presented as prey in a vast array of glossy USA programs?

You've never seen police / transport notices telling women to do XYZ lest the bogyman gets them?

Maybe get out more or pay more attention when you are out?

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