Gender pay gap

have never worked anywhere that pays differently to men and women who do the same job.Can anybody give an example of different pay to men and women who do exactly the same job?.

Have you had total pay transparency in every job you’ve ever had? That’s unusual. Some employers like universities have pay spines - that’s positive because you can see that Dr. Bloke is grade whatever and thus will be in a set pay bracket. A lot of public sector work is like this.
A significant number of private sector firms make it a condition of employment that salaries are not discussed - since I moved from academic work to private sector this has been the case at every company I’ve been at.
You’d never be able to say ‘widgetco pays all its men ten percent more’ - what tends to happen is that men are hired on higher salaries to begin with, even if they are lower quality/experience years/qualifications than a woman hired at the same time.
I have directly challenged this in my work and been told ‘bloke has a family to support’ once. At other times it’s been grudging agreed that Dr.woman (who had better qualifications, experience and references) should start on the same as Mr. Bloke. I’ve also challenged my own pay level against a man hired on more than me - again lesser qualified (and it turned out not that good at the job.)

The causes of pay disparity are multiple. A lot of it is structural, but I have directly seen differential pay for the same job many, many times, and that experience is echoed by friends in different sectors. It happens. At the higher levels, it gets quite extreme.

I have never worked anywhere that pays differently to men and women who do the same job.

How would you know this?
The law that companies have to publicly disclose wages only went into effect in 2017.

The data released this week produced stunning results, with banks, airlines, retailers and British soccer clubs reporting significant differences in the mean salaries between men and women.
time.com/5229228/gender-wage-gap-uk/

I have never worked anywhere that pays differently to men and women who do the same job.
Can anybody give an example of different pay to men and women who do exactly the same job?.

@picassospaintbrush

"When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears"

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/01/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work

Oh look another statement supported by an external source! Naughty @fmsfms using evidence!

which is clearly false.

Hahahaha.

Jeez.

In some cases, such as the one in the news report of the settlement I linked to the white men cheat the women and Black men and women because they want to.
They pay a relatively insignificant fine when they get caught.

The only thing that matters is that men and women get paid the same for doing the same job.

They very often don’t.

From long, long industry experience I say this . So there is a sex pay gap. Multiple things contribute - all the structural inequalities discussed earlier which affect the actual jobs women do, the time off for maternity, the fact more women than men go part time, the way facilitated men dominate.
And still with all that, there are still companies employing people to do the same job, with the same qualifications, and the same success levels, and paying the men more than the women. I’ve seen it happen at every level I’ve been at.

@Vicky1990 "There is no such thing as a gender pay gap, it is a meaningless term designed by feminists to confuse."

You have a point - there was that Johnathan Pie video (I think) where he said that most people think "pay gap" means women get paid less than men for the same job, which is clearly false.

The way the media report it doesn't help paint an accurate picture

There is no such thing as a gender pay gap, it is a meaningless term designed by feminists to confuse.

Much hilarity.

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/company-behind-fearless-girl-statue-pays-5m-discrimination-article-1.3544153

There is no such thing as a gender pay gap, it is a meaningless term designed by feminists to confuse.
The only thing that matters is that men and women get paid the same for doing the same job.

And going back to the original point I was trying to make - if you equalised pay even post maternity leave and any other factors eg retirement age- a person that takes time out to have children, go travelling or write a book that never gets finished will still have earnt less than the person that doesn't

Which only accounts for 20% of the difference, so clearly there is something else at work here, which we were trying to talk about.

Well 274 messages in and fmsfms is still explaining how to add up.

@mrghardy "For one, women in less well paying jobs will automatically have lower lifetime earnings......That is a separate issue from being penalized due to becoming a mother while fathers are rewarded."

Yes, that's my point: women are paid less than men (except in their 20s), therefore by the time they've retired they've earnt less than men.

It is NOT a separate issue at all.

Women are paid less than men (for a number of reasons - yes falling behind in their careers after childbirth is one, as is choosing lower paid jobs), therefore they earn less than men

And going back to the original point I was trying to make - if you equalised pay even post maternity leave and any other factors eg retirement age- a person that takes time out to have children, go travelling or write a book that never gets finished will still have earnt less than the person that doesn't

Your point. I clearly pointed out that lifetime earnings is a separate issue from salary, albeit linked in some instances. For one, women in less well paying jobs will automatically have lower lifetime earnings. They might not ever lose out because they never have children and never face discrimination, and yet their lifetime earnings are lower. That is a separate issue from being penalized due to becoming a mother while fathers are rewarded.

So I ask you - how hard is that to understand?

What is so hard to understand

You.

@picassospaintbrush "This thread is about the UK gender pay gap reporting which is happening in the UK now.

Your link is a US college journal talking about something else."

another failure of a post from you. My very first source defined the UK pay gap

"Is a measure of the difference between men’s and women’s average earnings across an organisation or the labour market. It is expressed as a percentage of men’s earnings. In the Britain, there is an overall gender pay gap of 18.1%." www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/what-difference-between-gender-pay-gap-and-equal-pay

@mrghardy this is what you said earlier:

"Lifetime earnings is simply a consequence of your yearly salaries. There might be overlaps with lifetime earnings in the sense that the same event (child) can drive both, but it is not the same thing and the solutions for it are not the same."

I'm not sure what the problem is here?

Women are paid less than than men, therefore over the course of their careers they earn less than man

What is so hard to understand

"It really boggles my mind that @mrghardy thinks that women being paid less than men does not translate into a lifetime earnings gap."

I actually said the opposite. Shows how little you pay attention when you read.

"It's not a demand, it's a source (in that case 3 separate sources) that support my definition/interpretation of the "pay gap""

I do not give a flying f what you think the definition should be. If you can't provide rationale why we should talk about lifetime earnings and not salary then you have no argument.

Dude, if you need to define the terms away from what is discussed in order to win an argument, think about how shit your argument really is.

If you can't provide rationale why you think we should talk about lifetime earnings rather than salary then I won't bother clicking on some random links that use a definition that fits your narrative.

Maybe they are from the US and don't know this is a UK site?

OK, another person with no interest either has no decided to join in.

You are on the feminism board, if you remember. The clue is in the name.

This thread is about the UK gender pay gap reporting which is happening in the UK now.

Your link is a US college journal talking about something else. We don't want to discuss that.

If you do please start your own thread on it and enjoy the conversation with people that want to discuss it with you.

If you cannot formulate and express your arguments, and instead demand that people go read link after link after link of other people's opinions, people lose interest in talking with you.
It that is your goal then you have very nearly achieved it.

In other words 'please dont pop our confirmation bias bubble

" and instead demand that people go read link after link after link of other people's opinions, people lose interest in talking with you."

It's not a demand, it's a source (in that case 3 separate sources) that support my definition/interpretation of the "pay gap"