Gender pay gap

Yes, thousands, but then I'm a pay expert and do this for a living, under NDAs. For FTSE 100 companies.

Can I ask again does anybody know of an instance when a man and a woman were paid different wages for doing exactly the same job?

Yes.

Vicky asked for examples. I have examples.

Some are saying it (sex pay gap for equal work) never happens. It does.

Can I ask again does anybody know of an instance when a man and a woman were paid different wages for doing exactly the same job?.

If you wish to understand what is happening here, fms, I suggest you google "Sauce for the goose...".

@Picassospaintbrush

What mundane title should we give a new thread where we can actually discuss this topic properly?

(I didn't even want to have that discussion in the first place)

Even more irony.

Should we have a chat about obsessive compulsive disorder or is that inappropriate?

I know you don't know what I'm getting at, I honestly didn't expect you to.

But it will be clear to most people here so that's absolutely fine. If they want me to elaborate I will.

He sounds like every run of the mill MRA I ever argued against.

"Naughty @fmsfms using evidence!"

I lol'd at the irony.

Hi @SonicVersusGynaephobia

"You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.

It's often much easier for people to believe someone's testimony as opposed to understanding complex data and variation across a continuum. Quantitative scientific measures are almost always more accurate than personal perceptions and experiences, but our inclination is to believe that which is tangible to us, and/or the word of someone we trust over a more 'abstract' statistical reality.

Example: Jason said that that was all cool and everything, but his grandfather smoked, like, 30 cigarettes a day and lived until 97 - so don't believe everything you read about meta analyses of methodologically sound studies showing proven causal relationships."

yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

I have never worked anywhere that pays differently to men and women who do the same job.
Can anybody give an example of different pay to men and women who do exactly the same job?

Yes. I have several examples from my own career experience.

Ranging from entry level jobs, right up to senior management jobs.

@picassospaintbrush " Do you have a degree in stating the bleeding obvious?"

I didn't think the billions paid into mens football would need explaining but clearly it did (I didn't even want to have that discussion in the first place)

I wonder if I'll ever post a source which isn't immediately dismissed with "bias"

"The table showing the gap by function by level by company is where we have the biggest problem (despite it being the lowest average) which is going to unravel over the next few years, as this is where it's discriminating on sex, where functions are occupationally segregated on sex, the male dominated ones pay higher than the female dominated ones."

I'm really not sure what you're getting at here. The article/Korn Ferry (they're an Executive Search Firm/Headhunters as I suspect you know) is very clear. Pay gap for same job is 1%

"According to data for 8.7m employees worldwide gathered by Korn Ferry, a consultancy, women in Britain make just 1% less than men who have the same function and level at the same employer."

fmsfms. Do you have a degree in stating the bleeding obvious?

@thebewilderness

I don't need to read a link to know that men's football is almost infinitely more popular worldwide (USA being an exception where it historically was perceived as a girls sport), and thus TV companies are prepared to pay billions for the rights, thus the talent is well compensated.

All irrelevant to discussion at hand though.

Airlines have a wage gap because there are more male pilots than women.

Football clubs have a wage gap because each one has a 22 man first team squad with players on multi million pound contracts.

I loved the way the Chelsea women talked after the match last week, such amazing teamwork.

I will not be taking any son of mine to any men’s football matches. Time was it was place you learned a sense of fair play and sportsmanship. Now it’s corrupt to the core it’s just about the money. The players think they can treat anyone particularly women and girls like shit. Sepp Blatter’s comments about increasing viewership of the women’s game by putting them in smallers shorts. I mean honestly fuck that noise and then some.

No I’ll be taking my son to women’s games because there you are more likely to see a genuine love of the game and not just a love of money.

What do you do for a living fmsfms?

Even pay spines are questionable as they are time based and that one dimension has a limit in justifying a difference. Equal pay means current job, so someone being in it ten versus five years, hard to justify.

The mistake in looking at averages in surveys and saying that's proof of equal pay is that the average is just that, an average. The data points can be a huge range, especially in organisations with broad bands, which is the norm in corporate scores. The lowest paid woman and highest paid man is an equal pay claim waiting to happen. I do risk assessments for companies on this.

The table showing the gap by function by level by company is where we have the biggest problem (despite it being the lowest average) which is going to unravel over the next few years, as this is where it's discriminating on sex, where functions are occupationally segregated on sex, the male dominated ones pay higher than the female dominated ones. This is going to collapse as a defense.

But hey, a journalist copying a pretty table from a Korn Ferry brochure can only guess what is going on behind the data. So let's believe the journalist guessing.

Myself and the QC working on this with me will consult a few journos for an answer!

Had you read the link as you demand others do you would know the answers to all your questions.

@thebewilderness "Since they win far more games and have much greater attendance and a much larger profit margin the women are finally going to be paid the same as the men."

Nice try, does that apply to all national women's teams being more popular and lucrative than the mens teams lol

Funny, I thought Sky and BT paid billions to broadcast mens football, must have been my imagination

Does anyone know if Munroe Bergdorf got equal pay with Cheryl Cole for their Loreal campaign (before she was fired at least 😆)

Is it fair that the Victoria's Secret Angels get paid more for their annual show than the non angels?

If David Attenborough feels too old to narrate Blue Planet 3 and the BBC hire a young unknown male co narrator, should they get paid the same?

If Jane sells 10 TVs a week at Currys, is never late and Bob only sells 5 TVs and is hungover every Sunday then is Jane entitled to ask for a raise at the end of the year?

What about if Bob sorts his performance out and does just as well as Jane, then Jane gets an offer of a 20% pay rise to go work for a competitor. Are Currys entitled to match that offer and put Jane further ahead if Bob for doing the same job?

Bizarre that you would post numerous irrelevant links and then accuse others of not understanding the issue.

And don't even think of saying women's football should be paid the same as mens, we'll nip that one in the bud instantly

Since they win far more games and have much greater attendance and a much larger profit margin the women are finally going to be paid the same as the men.
www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/sports/soccer/us-womens-soccer-equality.html

@thebewilderness "The data released this week produced stunning results, with banks, airlines, retailers and British soccer clubs reporting significant differences in the mean salaries between men and women.
time.com/5229228/gender-wage-gap-uk/

Hahaha thanks for demonstrating you don't understand the debate

The pay gap reports have nothing to do with equal pay for equal jobs. They're just reporting the gap between men and women in yearly salaries

Why do you think football teams with players on £1m+ salaries have a pay gap?

How many women play in the man United first team? Lol

And don't even think of saying women's football should be paid the same as mens, we'll nip that one in the bud instantly