Gender pay gap

When I taught in schools, the management tier worked crazy hours. Is it any wonder these echelons are occupied by men?

I absolutely agree, and the fact that it has become this way is indicative of men having pressed their advantage (not necessarily as a deliberate move to overshadow women I shouldn't think); but pressed the freedom they have to exploit their own free time - of which they have historically had lots on account of reduced caring duties when compared to women - and using that to get ahead over and above other men.

So here we are now with a situation where men compete with men to get ahead in a system where only men (or to a lesser degree those with fewer caring responsibilities) have the capacity to succeed.

I agree that this mad situation of working crazy hours is not conducive to the equality of opportunity for women to succeed in the workplace; so I think I rather like you radical new world!

I found it interesting that some organisations that have had the most to say about gender pay gaps in the past had gender pay gaps themselves as employers when the figures came out.
The Gaurdian
The BBC
Several major Unions, in fact if I recall correctly GMB with something like 36% pay gap.
It is also interesting that since the figures came out it seems to have gone quiet on the subject and very little of it is in the media.

I get annoyed with the claim that the pay gap exists because of the choices women make

I completely agree with you about this OP; a woman can make exactly the same choice as a man (e.g. to have a child with their partner), and for one of them that choice usually sets them back in their career and for the other it propels them forward.

That fact fails both women and men in heterosexual families, as one is shepherded down the path of domestic affairs due to frequently being the poorer earner with poorer prospects; and the domestic work needing doing! And the other being chained to the workplace by the family's need for money and their probably very real assessment that the man's job is likely to bring greater financial rewards for them all in the short, medium and long term.

So where is the choice? Women in this situation can go back to work and achieve whatever they are able, but they have to choose that frequently against what it best financially for their family. And men in this situation can stay at home with the children, take shared parental leave, be the parent on call/taking leave/going part time, but again this would frequently be the less financially rewarding option, even if it would emotionally rewarding.

I err on the side of thinking justice should be sought here for the good of women and men in society; men will not be free to choose the domestic roles associated with children until women are not financially disadvantaged or disadvantaged in terms of career progression by bearing them. And of course women will not be "free" to choose either.

But then it opens up that whole can of worms about how to square that with fairness for the women and men who don't have children.... It's a tough nut to crack!

It's been illegal to pay people different amounts for doing the same job for over 40 years so it's not a like-for-like pay gap.

I was a civil engineer and more qualified than my male peers. I still got 75% of the pay that they got. They insisted I worked more hours each week to make up for the slack that I was a female in a male job. by that I mean the manager used to make me stay behind after everyone else had gone home, for 2 ish hours, nearly every day. For no reason other than that I was female. Which meant I earnt even less per hour.

Just because something is illegal does not mean it doesn't happen. In many cases it IS a like-for-like pay gap.

Sorry autocorrect turned payscales to pascal's.

Opheliah just because it's been illegal for 40 years does not mean it never happens. Murder, theft, fraud etc etc have been illegal for even longer and they still keep happening too.

Our cultural distaste for being open about our salary helps this. In public sector organisations there are published pascal's and if you are in a band G job you will be on a specified salary in year 1 and will go up by a known increment each year but even then there is some disparity as there is always a little flexibility to start a new staff member on point 2 rather than point 1 of the scale - and someone who has been socialised to be assertive and entitled is more likely to push for that than someone who has been socialised to take a back seat.

In other sectors pay may not be on a published payscale at all and may be individually negotiated. In those circumstances it us entirely likely that gender disparity will emerge without any real justification in terns of work quality or quantity.

It's been illegal to pay people different amounts for doing the same job for over 40 years so it's not a like-for-like pay gap.

Most companies have mainly males in the highest pay bracket and mostly females in the lowest pay bracket, who are working part time, working around childcare or taking carreer breaks for maternity, unlike the men. Women currently make up 62% of those earning less than the living wage, according to the Living Wage Foundation, so I agree with the above post that structural sexism leads to women excluded from higher paid jobs.

I'd say a sex pay gap does exist but then a Marxist would say a class based pay gap exists more firmly. It's tricky because women do get paid equally to men until they take time off for children then it drops off rapidly but those women will have husbands who support them and they'll be better or worse off depending on their class/upbringing.

It's a mixture. Many organisations do have equal pay for work of equal value but have structural sexism and uncontrolled unconscious bias in their recruitment and promotion procedures which mean that men are more likely to get promoted to the highest paying jobs. The structural sexism in society at large also means that millions of dads are missing out on the opportunity to be fully involved with raising their kids.

I guess there will always be a small pay gap as only women can give birth and breastfeed (if that is their feeding choice) but when we have a truly equal society the pay gap will correspond mathematically to the proportion of an average working life a woman spends doing things that only women can biologically do.