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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm starting to wonder if there are just too many differences between my beliefs and those of my friends

39 replies

BeyondPink · 13/05/2018 11:41

If it were just one or two things then I'd work with it, but it seems I am constantly having to either disagree with a majority or leave things unchallenged. I'm annoyed, it's taken a lot for me to find a group I fit in with, but on some subjects I feel like I don't know them at all.

99.9% of the time I challenge, but I was already considering posting this thread the other day anyway about this, and I decided the way "around" it was to only challenge if it directly impacts my own DCs, cause I'm sick of the mental energy I am wasting on what feels like a lost cause.

The example that led to me posting today was someone saying to her son "boys can't like pink". Aren't adults supposed to know better than this?

I end up coming away from socialising feeling bloody lonely, and it's really wearing me down.

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ChattyLion · 18/05/2018 22:50

Here for the off shore commune.
Mayhew Grin

smithsinarazz · 18/05/2018 21:54

@ArtBrut - i hear what you're saying, but, honestly, I don't know any mums at all who are able either a) to resist the allure of pretty dresses for their little girls or b) to put pretty dresses on their little boys. And all my friends are doctors and teachers and so on. I don't mean to say that there's any logical sense in saying "boys don't wear pink", I just mean that dress conventions are really entrenched within any society, and following them doesn't make you a dyed-in-the-wool anti-feminist. Anyway, we, the Mumsnet hive mind, don't actually know if that statement is actually typical of OP's friends or just something that someone said once. But I suppose that if it was just something that someone said once, it wouldn't bounce you into going off to a chatroom to tell everyone how crap your mates are.
@Lovelytreeoutsidemywindow - yes! You find hotbeds of like-minded people in unexpected places. Something like Breeze is great because it's a bit greeny, and a bit counter-cultural - but it's positive and celebratory. (And I am sorry to say that cycling is much more fun without men. They always have to turn it into a competition.)

Lovelytreeoutsidemywindow · 17/05/2018 15:19

OP, I have felt the same outside my work environment and have to travel to the nearest city to meet my 'tribe.'

One maybe unlikely environment to meet like minded women has been this scheme:
www.letsride.co.uk/breeze which I've become involved in. In my area at least it's turned out to be a hidden den of feminists and it's keeping me fit.

I play another team sport where I have to grit my teeth at the prosecco-type whatsapp chat and them all calling each other 'girls' (we're mostly all over 40).

Flicketyflack · 17/05/2018 15:10

I find others banal conversation quite depressing too and as a consequence stick to a few trusted friends and feel lonely at my kids school Sad

Flicketyflack · 17/05/2018 15:09

beyondpink i have learned to pick my battles because otherwise I would always be disagreeing Grin

BeyondPink · 17/05/2018 15:02

Dh thinks I am depressed and catastrophising Hmm

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IamPickleRick · 17/05/2018 14:40

I feel the same. A topic comes up, I always says “well I think blah blah blah”, they all look at each other like wtf is she talking about and it goes quiet. I am accused of overthinking things or being too stubborn in my ideals. I have friends who I can talk to about deeper issues but they are old friends and any topic can be discussed. Newer friends on the same wave length are harder to find.

ArtBrut · 17/05/2018 14:40

You might a) be a terrific intellectual snob who has always thought yourself to be a cut above the rest of the world or you might b) really live in a morass of the incorrigibly small-minded, who've never thought for themselves and wouldn't understand that someone might want to.

In fairness, if there's someone still in the OP's environment who thinks that boys having any form of contact with pink will Catch the Gay (or whatever it is they actually fear -- who knows?), I don't think it's indicative that the OP is in any sense an 'intellectual snob'. It's hardly sitting about at baby groups quoting de Beauvoir and Cixous in the original French , is it? Grin

Katialoo · 17/05/2018 14:34

I will add kat, that I wonder if it is being autistic that contributes towards it being so hard for me to go with the flow with different viewpoints; maybe I'm being rigid where others might cope better. Hmm...

Yes actually very good point. I definitely struggle to go with the flow in that way.

BeyondPink · 17/05/2018 14:20

*struggle TOO

I will add kat, that I wonder if it is being autistic that contributes towards it being so hard for me to go with the flow with different viewpoints; maybe I'm being rigid where others might cope better. Hmm...

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BeyondPink · 17/05/2018 14:18

Yes smiths, I wonder that myself - is it just me? Am I just being a snob, thinking everyone is beneath me, a grown-up female Adrian Mole? Grin
I dont think so as there are people I connect with online, just not in my real life. But I do wonder...

Kat, I'm also autistic. That was probably something relevant that I've now dripfed 😬

Writers, yes it is tedious! And so draining. Flowers that you struggle to :(

I just told dh. He doesn't get it at all, which was a little surprising. I guess the difference in how I feel I have to hide myself and he doesn't is probably what makes this relevant to FWR Hmm

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Writersblock2 · 17/05/2018 13:55

I’m the same, OP. Both at work, with family, and friends outside. Tedious, is what it is. I mostly just spend time with OH, my pets, and feminists online!

Katialoo · 17/05/2018 13:48

I have aspergers so have always struggled to feel a sense of belonging but I understand this too op. I didn't realise just how many people were fully subscribed to the boy brain, girl brain stuff before I had dd. It always seemed natural to me, for example, to not dress my dd in lacey/frilly items of clothing, partly because of asd related sensory issues of my own - I remember finding stuff like that incredibly itchy and uncomfortable when I was a child and hated being dressed that way, but also because I have never seen the point of it unless it's a special occasion (I know that second part is weird, I know a lot of people like to see kids dressed up) .. But I've had comments about her looking like a boy/wearing boys clothes. When imo she was wearing just normal stuff that I'd wear myself if it was in my size. And similarly I've bought her a range of toys and let her play with what she seems interested in. She went through a phase (well still ongoing) of loving trains and a friend said "that's a strange thing for a little girl to play with". I found her opinion really strange... I don't understand it.

And of the people I know the same ones who say things like "boys are naturally this way, and girls are naturally that way" are the same ones who wouldn't let their boy play with a doll or buy their girl a toy car, when the children do show an interest in them. I don't understand it at all. Is it a form of homophobia.. Are they scared the child playing with the wrong toy will be turned into a homosexual? Or maybe it's partly fear of standing out and not following what everyone else does.

smithsinarazz · 17/05/2018 12:08

Trouble is, we don't know the full situation, OP. You might a) be a terrific intellectual snob who has always thought yourself to be a cut above the rest of the world or you might b) really live in a morass of the incorrigibly small-minded, who've never thought for themselves and wouldn't understand that someone might want to.
Or even both...
If a) well, there is more that unites us than divides us, and you don't have to agree with your friends about everything, and you are allowed to talk about the banal and everyday. So someone thinks a boy shouldn't wear pink? Well, she's being daft, but, you know, it's just convention, not necessarily any more sinister than putting little girls in skirts and little boys in trousers. It probably isn't worth falling out about. Look for the positive in people.. and in yourself.
If b) - to be honest, i do actually sympathise. I've been in workplaces where the women all talked about diets and crap telly all day and it can feel so horribly, horribly lonely. Can you find people to talk to who are linked by something other than having babies? Book group? Friends of the Park? Local activism on something or other? Perhaps you could work out what interests you, and follow that.
Actually, though, I've met some brilliant people at baby singing. The fact that it's a music group seems to weed out quite a lot of the boring ones.
I think we need to have friendships at different levels, from the banal everyday chatting acquaintanceships to the deep-and-meaningful-soulmate conversations to the intense intellectual debate. They all fulfil a particular role, and they're all valuable and valid, but not all relationships can be everything to you.

BeyondPink · 14/05/2018 08:20

Thanks terfs :)

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TerfsUp · 13/05/2018 20:55

Sorry to hear about the friends situation, OP.

FlyTipper · 13/05/2018 20:29

I gave up a friend who couldn't shut up about boy v girl differences. I'm the sort of person that doesn't pipe up unless I'm asked or the thing being said is totally ridiculous. But with this person, there was no way around it. If spending time with a 'friend' becomes miserable all the time, ultimately you know that person has to go from your life.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 13/05/2018 18:16

I solve this problem by having few friends Grin also the home ed groups round here are all about colours & hair cuts being for everyone etc

If I were there by myself I would have ignored the comment but with kids I would have said 'oh really we always say colours are for everyone why do you think pink isnt for boys'? (If i dont know the person saying it I roll my eyes at my kids & talk to them later)

SarahCarer · 13/05/2018 16:53

Sounds good to me beyond. Wmc and bookies round here as well.

BeyondPink · 13/05/2018 16:50

It's really not the sort of area that has progressive types (if they are around, they are hiding well!) in vegetarian cafes... more a working men's club, a nail bar and a bookies!

Ah well. At least I'm not alone in internetland as people here have similar experiences. Off-shore Commune time? Grin

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mayhew · 13/05/2018 16:22

You need better friends! That sort of drivel is brain damaging. I understand it's hard to meet people sometimes, but you only need one or two on your wavelength. Where might the progressive types hang out? Out of school creative activities? Library sessions? Vegetarian cafes?

I'm a midwife. Years ago a mother called me over in the post natal ward, "Sister, that woman's put her boy in a pink baby gro! " she seemed to be expecting me to make an intervention.
I said "Ooh, do you think he's a homosexual?" No further dialogue.

SarahCarer · 13/05/2018 16:16

I empathise too. I am openly GC with non GC friends, particularly in relation to raising boys. I feel a sense of responsibility to share my insight even when it's annoying. I also come over as patronising (including on here) but I don't really mind that much. I can't not share.

BeyondPink · 13/05/2018 16:04

Thanks lasqrrl, maybe it is just a shifting of priorities over time.

Maybe I need to be more proactive in meeting people who do have similar outlooks.

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BeyondPink · 13/05/2018 13:51

I can disagree in chitchat - I've got that one nailed Grin

It's when it's something where I know I am right and it's related to something more...theoretical that I struggle - swinging beyond blunt statements and dead air, or zipping it and simmering. Hopefully sounding as unsmug as possible (I'm just trying to paint a scene here... 😬), I am intelligent and I know I come across as patronising when it comes to certain subjects, and since a young age I've had to hide that to an extent. So the easiest way to not cut myself off from everyone but dh (who has a very similar manner), is to avoid any situation that shows off my brain. Very AvPD!

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LaSqrrl · 13/05/2018 13:37

As you get older, friends, or people you thought were friends, fall by the wayside. Sometimes it is a shifting of interests on one or both sides, sometimes it is fundamental belief systems or values. Sounds like the latter is happening.

It is entirely possible to make new friends. At any stage of life.