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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Muslim rights vs Transgender rights

133 replies

DJLippy · 12/05/2018 15:02

A beauty Salon in Ontario in Canada is being sued because a Muslim beautician refused to wax a transgeder woman's legs for religious reasons. It's being likened to refusing to serve gay people.

Is the Muslim community in the UK aware of the impact that self-ID would have on their right to practice their religion?

windsor.ctvnews.ca/human-rights-application-launched-against-windsor-body-waxing-business-by-transgender-woman-1.3925911#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=2lV42Ii

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Cwenthryth · 12/05/2018 17:43

I guess Muslim (and Jewish, etc) women’s groups need to come to the table on this.

DJLippy · 12/05/2018 17:43

This really really really fucks me off.

Nobody has an answer for me. They say that I shouldn't speak for Muslim women. Fuck off - isn't this intersectional? Fighting on behalf of my Muslim sisters? Nope, this is me being a colonialist....Angry

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Jesuisleloup · 12/05/2018 17:41

Would be interesting to hear from a mosques point of view. OP: you should write to one ?

EnormousDormouse · 12/05/2018 17:40

Where I live (a relatively progressive Muslim country); it is illegal for a man to wear women's clothing or to impersonate a woman. He would be arrested.
I would love to see a transactivist come to try to argue their case over here!!

EnormousDormouse · 12/05/2018 17:37

Yup I've been banging on about the effect on Muslim and other women who have a sex-segregation aspect to their faith.
If single sex facilities can not be guaranteed I worry that some may have to consider withdrawing from public/private spaces (changing rooms, toilets) where currently it's safe space where scarves and abayas come off.

DJLippy · 12/05/2018 17:33

I would like to do a ManFriday event at a mosque - but attending prayers as a man is incredibly offensive. I saw a post on twitter from somebody saying that men were wearing a hijab and now saying they were Muslim women. I can guarantee you can't wear jeans and be accepted as a man.

Would be good to go to a mosque and tell them about the law and how it could impact their rights. Does anybody know if this is discussed anywhere?

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Rufustheyawningreindeer · 12/05/2018 17:31

DJ

Get with the programme

The hat is PINK!!

Jeez

DJLippy · 12/05/2018 17:29

Is he talking the fucking piss? Man with hat is now a woman.

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SpareRibFem · 12/05/2018 17:17

I worry the Muslim community has not realised the implications of self Id. Indeed any religion that has a preference for modesty in front of the opposite sex.
If things continue the way they are trans activists will drive Muslim women out of any occupation that might put her in close proximity with women 😡
And unable to access any public service including medical.

Grasslands · 12/05/2018 17:11

The guy does look creepy, I’d be fearing my safety as well.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 12/05/2018 17:08

But this never ever happens right? Hmm

MargeH · 12/05/2018 17:05

Another Canadian beauty salon story

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-human-rights-complaint-1.3735833

Yes, mate, your T-shirt says it all...you were taking the mickey.

MaisyPops · 12/05/2018 17:02

Take genitals out of it and the principle is the same, nobody should be forced to have physical contact with someone they don't want to.

Pratchet · 12/05/2018 16:56

It's not transphobia OR homophobia

Terfulike · 12/05/2018 16:55

It's all very well saying it's only legs not genitals, but I wouldn't want to defuzz a strange man in his underpants right up his thigh and everything.

Cwenthryth · 12/05/2018 16:46

I’ve been wondering this (transgender ‘rights’ vs religious freedom) as the yoga studio I go to have recently started an Ummah Yoga women-only class, with Muslim women in mind, but open to women of any faiths and none. The listing doesn’t specify how they are defining woman, and you’d hope that any decent male-bodied person would not seek to impose themselves upon Muslim women needing a single sex space to exercise in, however they (the male-bodied person) viewed their own gender identity. But I do fear that someone may try to take advantage. It’s a very multicultural historically working class area undergoing gentrification rapidly.

As I’m neither Muslim nor transgender, it’s not my personal issue, but I really hope that the studio are ready to invoke the EA exceptions to maintain a single-sex space should they be challenged.

KirstenRaymonde · 12/05/2018 16:44

It’s legs, nothing to do with genitals. It’s also not homophobia, gender and sexual orientation are two entirely different things

MargeH · 12/05/2018 16:36

Tbf, the person in question was requesting a leg wax., not a 'bikini' one.

BeverlyGoldberg · 12/05/2018 16:28

This isn't homophonic. It isn't even a trans issue.

No woman should be compelled to do anything she really doesn't want to do or which makes her uncomfortable, particularly when it involves handling/touching/treating genitalia.

The fact there is any doubt that she was completely within her rights to decline to conduct the treatment just shows how crazy this debate has become.

DJLippy · 12/05/2018 16:23

I think this is a double whammy because obviously everybody should be able to refuse such a thing but Muslims have another protected characteristic under Equality legislation which is the freedom to practice their religion. Not sure what Canada's law's are but pretty sure religious freedom is an important right in a multi-cultural country.

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MaisyPops · 12/05/2018 16:19

No woman should be compelled to handle anyone's genitals they don't want to. It's that simple.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 12/05/2018 16:18

bishy

Do you know what homophobia is?

ijustwannadance · 12/05/2018 16:17

I suspect that this business was targeted specifically to make a point.

The woman had every right to refuse, Muslim or not, but this is Canada so women no longer matter.

RebelRogue · 12/05/2018 16:12

Fucking twat. The hairy one ,not the employee.

DJLippy · 12/05/2018 16:08

The application to the HRTO says Carruthers’ “refusal to provide me with leg-waxing services because I am a Transgender woman, and their disclosing my name, gender identity and personal information to various media outlets has left me feeling threatened, exposed, with my rights violated in terms of seeking services as a woman in the Windsor-Essex community.”

DIdn't the transwoman launch the court case? Why would the Salon owner have publicized this? They would have just hung up and gone about their business.

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