Your Teenage Child tells you they think they are Transgender

OldCrone

Is that for real?! Thats scary

'So we will have a

party and all your
friends will come.
We’ll tell them
you’re not Polly
and were really
always Tom!'

Yeah, so basically encouraging 3-6 year olds to say they are trans, so they get a fucking party? Thats horrendous.

But nope, noone is encouraging children to say they are trans, not at all

What baffles me is why schools are actually letting these organisations in.

I presume that GIRES was part of yesterday's event in Westminster along with Amnesty, Stonewall, Mermaids and Girl Guides?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3250175-Girl-Guides-Panel-discussion-at-Speakers-house-woman-male-woman-male-male-male

The GIRES penguins, for anyone who hasn't seen them yet. Aimed at children aged 3-6

www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Penguin-Story-Trans-Boy.pdf
www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Penguin-Story-Trans-Girl.pdf
www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Penguin-Story-Non-Binary.pdf

Three short stories, each take 2-3 minutes to read to the class. The stories start in the same way, but each ends differently:

Sally’s story is about a penguin child whose gender identity as a girl, was not immediately understood by her family, they thought she was a boy;
Tom’s story is the same, but in reverse, the family thought he was a girl;
Blur’s story is about an identity that is neither boy nor girl (non-binary, gender queer)

Teaches children that if they don't like being a boy/girl they can choose to be the other sex. They need to get there early before the children learn any biology and realise that this is not true, and before they understand that being a girl/boy is not about what clothes you wear or what toys you like.

What baffles me is why schools are actually letting these organisations in.

AGP. In schools, forcing teachers and girls to facilitate boys.

Transpire are a grassroots / voluntary group:
www.echo-news.co.uk/news/14938240.How_group_inspires_transgender_journey/
"Since that small beginning, in which the group was launched as a Facebook support forum, the organisation has grown from strength to strength - now boasting well over 200 members.

The group hosts regular meetings and Gina, 52, has started giving inspirational talks in schools about her transition journey and promoting the Transpire network"

Their website:
transpiresouthend.org

Instrumental in changing a school's policy with regards toilets this year:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43462823

Discussion:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3209839-The-Police-making-policy-for-schools?pg=1

Well done, OnTheList

I would also withdraw my child (of any age) from any Mermaids talk- because I do not agree with what Mermaids say or do.

According to another Mumsnetter, whose child's primary school was visited by one external "group" (I forget which) - the child told her something like "they said sometimes boys feel like girls, and like playing with girls toys, and sometimes girls feel like boys, and if you want to you when you're older you can take some tablets and can change your sex."

No way would should this be allowed in schools.

OnTheList
Well done for that. More of this needs to happen.

There was a Mermaids talk actually planned for DDS school, shes only in reception. I said she would not be taking part.

If my kids were still at school I would also withdraw them from all lessons/activities provided by trans lobby groups.

Our concern is what the Mermaids are training children and educators and police officers about gender, not the Tavistock gids services.

Also yes, this!

Tavistock seem sensible, but of course they would be. But its Mermaids, and GIRES and such who are going round 'training' various organizations, and doing talks in schools. There was a Mermaids talk actually planned for DDS school, shes only in reception. I said she would not be taking part. I also told the other parents about it and what Mermaids are/do, and a bunch of them said their kids were not taking part. In the end it was cancelled. Not sure if it was because there would have been like 4 kids there rather than the whole class, or if there was something else. But glad of it either way. What the fuck can Mermaids teach 5 year olds? Honestly..

Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse."

I can well believe this. There are 3 'transboys' in my DSDs year alone. Given there are 4 years in her school, this means that if the other kids are following the same pattern, there are 12 girls saying they are trans in her school too. Possibly more, possibly less..I only know about her year as she has told me, I might actually ask her at the weekend if she knows if there are more in the rest of the school.

Where were all of these transkids before all of this blew up? I say they were just tomboys, and lesbians. Yes, the odd child may actually be trans. But nowhere near the amount of kids who are saying they are. Of course caution is needed. And its possible to accept your child and what they say, without taking part in the delusion. I do think that many transkids today are going to be really really fucked in a few years time, and all of this will blow up in a huge scandal. Mermaids will be viewed the same as the kids company, and puberty blockers will be viewed as this generations lobotomy.

I understand parents panicking when they have false suicide stats and such thrown at them. I think the pressure groups are absolutely fucking disgraceful, this is peoples lives they are messing up. Meanwhile, many transactivists retain their 'lady penis' or whatever, while encouraging children to transition physically.

Far from

I asked the OP twice whether she had any concerns about the medical intervention her adult child was going to undertake. I did this not to accuse her of anything but as a genuine wish to understand - a friend is facing this. That was despite this having been posted on the feminist board.

What I am left with is an impression that this is like a religion. If you truly believe, there is no argument - it's an act of faith. Also that basing medical treatment on a quasi-religion is not a good idea.

And whilst some on this thread are doing the placatory "no one does these things to children" - there is a considerable trans-lobby presence that is exactly pushing for drug therapy to be allowed for children.

I saw just one the other day: along the lines of "no transman should have to undergo a mastectomy" - presumably because drug therapy prior to puberty would stop the development of breast.

Well, what about the de-transitioned transboy in my DS's year? Would they have had her/him on drug therapy during those 2 years, so she didn't develop breasts? We don't even know the long-term effects of these drugs - and the jury seems to out on whether they are fully reversable - despite what trans charities would have you believe. I can't believe these drugs are just a "pause" - they are hormone controlling cancer treatments in general. We really are not sure about the effects on a normal body yet.

I would just like to add, without adding too much detail about the child I know - my DS who is 13 is at school with a girl who, a couple of years ago, transitioned to be a boy.

School had an assembly about it - all good - she/he chose a gender neutral name, and was treated as a boy. No drug treatments or appointments afaik. No problems with transition or acceptance - school were very accepting of it.

Just now, as in last month, she has chosen to transition back into a girl. I can't help thinking puberty blockers and whatnot would have hindered this very natural recovery.

That's not to say I believe this would be the case in every case - but isn't lifelong drug therapy/surgery/infertility a bit a hard-hitting, permanent pathway for someone so young?? When we know some - most, even - will recover.

The notion of "a happy child" being only supported by surgery, and lifelong drugs, is problematic for me. Not least because this will generally render the child/young adult infertile - a decision which would not allowed, at this age, under any other circumstance.

Are there not other ways to support a dysphoric child? Many seem to think there is - but are dismissed, at the moment, as promoting "conversion therapy" and suchlike. This is just not fair - I would say a successful case would be one that isn't reliant on life-changing drugs and surgery, but one based in therapy and acceptance of one's own body - which according to research, bears out in about 80% of cases.

FarFrom

These are the Feminist boards of MN.
We don't support abusive parents. I am shocked that this surprises you.

I feel very sorry for the OP because they are so defensive that they have locked down their world view to one of self righteousness. That never ends well.
I hoped they have not locked it down so tightly that they miss any hints that the child is having second thoughts.

Truth- it’s not a huge danger.
Gids will carry on doing the best they can for their patients despite pressure from both sides (like mn users often talking about giving hormone blockers as child abuse- pretty horrible accusation when you are trying your best to help young people)
But as hard as it is for clinicians - it’s even harder for the young people themselves and their parents- and the way people are talking to sallyanne demonstrates this. Nobody here shows curiosity in her (no doubt painful) experience but many are happy to attack. On a website that supports parents apparently.

So I will carry on with my bad parenting while you tut away in the corner.I will be there every step of the way with them .

You started this thread to make a point of how great a parent you were by deliberately setting out to make yourself a martyr and frame yourself as the 'bad parent' who is persecuted by evil MNetters.

• Slow hand clap *

The fact you made this thread, shows you are either being confrontational or do have deep seated fears that you don't want to admit to that keep you awake at night.

Or both.

Either way, it's not healthy.

This isn't a productive thread for your child. All it does is add to resentment and hostility by adding fuel to fire. That doesn't make it easier for your child to live day to day. I just don't get why you think it will.

No, this thread isn't about defending your child. This thread is very much about you and your decisions and how overly defensive you are of them.

This thread wasn't about engaging with anyone. It wasn't informing anyone. It wasn't about sharing an experience. It wasn't about supporting someone who might be in a similar position. It was just an opportunity for you to lash out at people with views which are different to your own choices.

That you can't see this is the depressing thing. That you think it will somehow make things better, beggars belief.

This is what pisses me off most. The fact that tolerance is built from building understanding. It's hard bloody work. You can't just tell people to shut up and agree with you. Rather than belittling fears, you have to acknowledge fears and work to reduce them by working through them rather than simply shouting abuse and further alienating.

I couldn't give a toss about what your child does. That's the business of your family. When you start making it other people's business then that's a problem. Every situation is unique. Every child is unique. What is right for one child isn't right for another. And that is what is most lost in this bullshit.

There is no 'right' way to do things. What any other person might do differently, isn't necessarily wrong.

This issue is so complex and there are so many unknowns here - which the Tavistock is openly saying - that we have a problem. The comorbity with mental health issues can not be ignored. It's there and needs to be dealt with along side gender identity.

I despair when I read threads like this.

They help precisely no one.

The comments under the Guardian article are interesting & worth a look.

The Tavistock clinic freely admit they are being pressured by trans activists and mermaids to prescribe though and to change their watchful approach. This is a huge danger.

Our concern is what the Mermaids are training children and educators and police officers about gender, not the Tavistock gids services.

So Polly Carmichael sounds thoughtful and reasonable. She says that we don’t know. The GIDS service there aims to help distressed young people just as sallyanne wants to help her child and no doubt other parents here also want to help their children. The Tavistock gids service is the service in the uk for under 18s with this kind of distress. They are not running a cult - but doing their best with very difficult uncertainty to make young people feel they can live their lives. They are not pushing surgery (don’t do it at all) or hormone blockers but not are they blindly assuming they know it all (unlike many posters here it seems) and sometimes intervention does really help young people to feel better about themselves. Yes in the future it may turn out this was a mistake but clinicians are doing the best they can with the experience and expertise they have. The first step is always watchful waiting and yes wondering about gender stereotypes and ideas within the child’s immediate and wider culture.
This is often enormously painful for the young people and their parents. I think that is why (for me) it is so hard to see the way it is talked about on here- men in dresses/ jokes etc.

Link to the thread discussing the Guardian article about Schools' role:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3249931-Interesting-guardian-article-May-15th

From JAmes Kirkup's article in The Spectator,

"This is an issue addressed by Dr Polly Carmichael, who runs the GIDS, in a recent talk to the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health. In her thoughtful hour-long lecture, she said this:

“The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

(In other words, these are girls who do not readily identify with the predominant idea of femininity and are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians.) Dr Carmichael’s conclusion:

“The truth is we don’t know, but we need discussion in order to be thinking about what this could mean."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

12 girls in one school???

Article in today's Guardian,
'Schools pulled into row over helping transgender children
As more teens come out as trans, experts clash over how schools should help'
www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding
(extract)

"Claire Birkenshaw, a transgender former headteacher, says the wide range of different advice creates confusion and conflict. “There needs to be clear statutory guidance for schools that incorporates the views of experts from education, the medical profession, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and trans people,” she says. “Rows about a vulnerable and marginalised group in education are not helpful.”

The EHRC is planning to issue guidance of its own next month, something Birkenshaw welcomes. “Schools want to support the transgender young person, but at the same time they’ll be reflecting on how other children may feel, on how staff are going to feel and parents.”

Davies-Arai says her broader concern is that by affirming students’ gender identity, schools may be nudging them down a route that can lead to cross-sex hormones and life-changing surgery without enough time to reflect. Teachers, she says, “are essentially being forced to collude in an experimental approach towards children with gender dysphoria”. She adds: “You can support children and accept them, without affirming their belief that their body is ‘wrong’.”

Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse."