Questions from a liberal feminist to the rad fems

Trans allies and transactivists don't really seem to grasp this point. I don't care what this bullshit legislation says anyway. They're male. They haven't changed sex in anything but name.

You're very invested in this.

Erishkigal transgender people are legally able to amend their birth certificate to a different sex. A trans friend of mine has theirs amended recently - issued with a brand new one with the opposite sex. Not sure how much more proof you need that trans women are legally recognised as woman? (bar the exemptions I noted in my OP.)

LEGALLY RECOGNISED. BAR THE EXEMPTIONS.

I know what you can do under the GRA thanks.

Not sure how much more proof you need that trans women are legally recognised as woman? (bar the exemptions I noted in my OP.)

It doesn't prove that they are. Or there wouldn't be exemptions. At all. Why exactly do they have exemptions do you think?

It's a legal fiction. The exemptions prove that it is a fudge.

Do you think that women who have been subjected to typical female socialisation gave in and allowed themselves to be subject to it?

No, not at all, I know I'm lucky.

"I didn't submit to any female socialisation" bloody hell. Do you think that women who have been subjected to typical female socialisation gave in and allowed themselves to be subject to it? That they could have somehow refused to allow it?

In any case it sounds like you parents didn't actually try to inflict typical female socialisation onto you anyway, so I'm not sure how you chose not to submit to something that wasn't being forced on you.

I bet your father didn't treat you like a boy when you met your first boyfriend - I bet he was very protective of you.

Nope, gave me condoms and told me to have fun.

And I assure you, I have been made a victim of since. But I've had too much wine to get into that. Just please be assured I see the strength in women; I see so much strength in all of us. I struggle to see our frailties, and I know I need to believe we are frailer than I think we are, for the good of our sex.

@RatRolyPoly

I appreciate I'm privileged, I do just genuinely want women to feel as strong and powerful as I believe they should. My feminism, I know it's slanted, but I assure you it comes from a good place.

But it's like Julia H-B, whom I admire in some ways, but it grated when women were finally talking about being assaulted, and she was so dismissive because it would never happen to her. Not all women are as self-confident and assertive and financially secure as she is, that doesn't mean they can be looked down on for being more vulnerable.

I didn't submit to any female socialisation

The point about female socialisation is that you can't escape it. It's inflicted on you by the whole society. It's not necessarily the things you are consciously told - like your dad telling you 'you're as good as any boy.' It's the fact that mothers take longer to respond to a baby girl. It's being treated slightly differenty by your teachers. I bet your father didn't treat you like a boy when you met your first boyfriend - I bet he was very protective of you. You can't escape socialisation. Unless you like in a hole, raised by robots you're going to meet people with views about men and women which they impress onto you on a subconscious way.

I was a tomboy with short hair and boys clothes for most of my childhood. Did I have male socialisation? In part I think I did but as people know your true sex they treat you differently.

Bit off topic but the only people who have ever accuse me of being a man is men. It is usually in the context of not being manly enough.

Internalized misogyny can create a male world view in women, but for the most part it does not give them a male voice. I don't think.
I am not very good at discerning the male or female style of writing.
I try to focus on what is being said and how it is being said.

@juells I appreciate I'm privileged, I do just genuinely want women to feel as strong and powerful as I believe they should. My feminism, I know it's slanted, but I assure you it comes from a good place.

Is it female socialisation that makes you care for women and girls? Fucking hell, what a crass thing to say.

Daimbars is a either man or a blue haired privileged snowflake

@ RatRolyPoly

I didn't submit to any female socialisation - I credit my father for telling me I could be anything I wanted to be.

I didn't have to submit to any female socialisation, and neither my father nor mother ever told me I couldn't be anything I wanted to be. Always knew what I wanted to be, and that's what I am. It's important to stand with all women, as so many haven't been as lucky as I am.

PS

you seem to see things from a male point of view

I didn't submit to any female socialisation - I credit my father for telling me I could be anything I wanted to be.

and dismiss concerns women express.

I assure you, I dismiss the concerns of both men and women at least equally, although I probably have less tolerance with men; and that is a fair criticism, and something I'm working on.

@RatRolyPoly

Are you sure GC feminists don't think this? I've been told on here I can't possibly be a woman more times than I can count, based on some unspecified collection of stereotypes.

I certainly thought you were a man. Not because of any collection of stereotypes on my part but because you seem to see things from a male point of view, and dismiss concerns women express.

If it was illegal to change sex do you think a person's gender dysphoria would blow over and they would learn to be happy in their own skin?

Or do you think there would be a lot of dodgy surgery and illegal hormone trading on the black market?

Why do you assume that cosmetic surgery would become illegal if you were not allowed to legally change sex.
I don't understand your questions.

Or do you think there would be a lot of dodgy surgery and illegal hormone trading on the black market?

Gender reassignment genital surgery was a thing before the GRA. The GRA did not legalise it. You are disingenuously conflating several issues.

Vesuvia but the law does recognise trans women with a GRC as women.

Daimbars, this has been challenged as false by a number of people. How about you engage with it? it does not recognise TIMs with a GRC as fully women, as there are exemptions to this legal status. Stop asking people questions and ignoring their responses.

If it was illegal to change sex do you think a person's gender dysphoria would blow over and they would learn to be happy in their own skin?

I don't think anyone has said that they shouldn't have whatever surgery they like if it helps assuage their dysphoria. Some people have said that perhaps it is not wise (for a variety of reason) for them to be legally recognised as female.

In the context you refer to, I'm not entirely sure that it is ultimately a good idea for someone to actually believe, and be encouraged to believe that they are of the opposite sex.

They are not and they never will be, and myriad things will remind them of this. Probably better for mental health to come to some sort of acceptance of your body rather than constantly strive to reach the impossibility.

but the law does recognise trans women with a GRC as women
Yes. And the law recognises adoptive parents are parents.
The law does not mean a) trans women are the same as biological women or b) adoptive parents are the same as biological parents.

For example. There is no point calling trans women for smears as they have no cervix. There is no point using the medical history of adoptive parents to assess risk of genetic illness in the child.

It is ridiculous to suggest that being treated legally as a woman actually makes someone a woman.