Questions from a liberal feminist to the rad fems

It's never affected me, I've always felt female

How do you even know you are female?

The medical profession acknowledges some people are 'born in the wrong body'

Do they? Just because they offer treatment of gender reassignment doesn't mean they actually believe that people are born in the wrong body. It means they have a way of treating the symptoms.

Which I believe only a small percentage of people take up.

Gender reassignment is offered on the NHS but that doesn't mean there's such a thing as being born in the wrong body.

Apparently a symptom of dysphoria is a child playing with children of the opposite sex. Jesus Christ.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

Gender reassignment is offered on the NHS

Is this because the medical profession believes in immortal souls wrongly assigned (“born in the wrong body”) or because they think this is a last-resort way of helping people with severe dysphoria to live in the mist comfortable way possible?

How do you 'feel female' daimbars?

I can feel tired (heavy limbs, tendency to fall asleep)

But how do you feel female? If I put on a frilly dress I might feel feminine, but you can't feel female. It's simply an objective reality.

There is ZERO credible evidence for the extremely harmful 'born in the wrong body' narrative.

Daim, gender critical feminists don't think gender is a binary. Most don't believe in gender at all, think that it is a social construct and would rather we lived in a world where gender was irrelevant/irradicated. But GC people do believe that sex is a binary. It Is sexed based protections that are being eroded by making everything about gender, which is a social construct.

Or am I wrong, and the medical profession really believes in an immaterial soul which somehow inhabits the material body and which can accidentally be wrongly assigned before birth, presumably because Godcwadnt paying enough attention?

Well said reluctant

What potplant and camper said.

If you view gender as a binary concept then it seems unfair to invalidate all the people who have a different experience than you.

No feminist views gender as a binary concept. That's a complete misunderstanding on your part.

Sex is binary.

Gender is a set of stereotypes for behaviour and personality imposed by society to the detriment of women, who are adult human females.

Feminism encourages gender non-conformity in both men and women. It simply doesn't believe you have to change sex to do it or that human beings have innate gendered identities, aka souls.

daimbars I don't view gender as a binary concept. I mostly think it's made up bollocks.

I do view sex as binary (in mammals), because it is.

Stop confusing sex and gender.

*citation needed

New tactic: go after posters who have expressed frustration at modding policies; try to get them to say something that will get them modded; hope that they then get pissed off enough to leave FWR. War of attrition. Ignore and don't fall for it.

I'd say "abusive" is saying people must be drunk just because you don't like their posts. And that was a direct PA to Angry.

I concur.

Great posts from charlie and susan

If the definition of transgender is a man who is really a woman (or vv) then I can say with all certainty that there is no such thing as transgender.

If the definition of transgender is a person of one sex who wishes to adopt the cultural stereotypes associated with the opposite sex, and possibly to make hormonal and surgical changes then of course such people exist. It does not make them the opposite sex however.

Even then it is not crystal clear as I am a woman but do and wear typically masculine things. But I am not transgender,

This is part of the problem. There is no hard and fast definition of transgender.

It is claimed the definition is a person whose gender assigned at birth does not match their internal sense of gender identity. There is so much wrong with this as a concept that it is difficult to know where to begin.

Gender is not assigned at birth. There is no evidence that we have an internal gender identity.

Until we get a proper, reasoned definition this will go round in circles.

@Supermatch

I was recently in some Stonewall training at work. The advice, from a senior Stonewall officer, given verbally at some length, was that service providers should allow everyone to use the facilities they chose. If anyone objected (the example given was a girl in school objecting to sharing the toilets with a trans girl) then alternative facilities should be provided for the complainer, not the trans person.

This actually contradicts the EA as it is now. I don’t think you can argue that Stonewall want to keep ANY single-sex spaces at all.

This thread is interesting. I would agree that the GRA is mostly not fit for purpose and not well thought out.

But I’d never ‘deny someone’s existence’ which is just a phrase used for emotional blackmail purposes really.

Saying that men, who have not undergone surgery or full transition in any way and don’t intend to either, shouldn’t be sharing spaces with vulnerable women and girls is NOT hate speech. It is NOT denying someone exists. Only that shared spaces are problematic and there needs to be a different solution for the safety and comfort of ALL involved.

The hyperbole around all this is ridiculous. Be your fabulous self in any way you want but don’t expect to get your own way all the time about everything. That’s just fucking childish.

Just using my insomnia to catch up with the last 24 hours of this thread and although it’s derailed somewhat there is some really interesting discussion here and well argued points so just wanted to say thank you, wimmin!

SMG I cant see where anyone has been abusive towards you, called you out on your behaviour towards other posters, yes, citing recognised forms of misogyny in relation to some of your posts, yes, but not abuse towards you. If you think someone has posted abuse please report it to MNHQ.

Even though SMG ignored my comment, I think it is relevant within this context.

I would anticipate that the prison service would have more information available to them (by way of pre-sentence reports, risk assessments, time and resources etc) than a women's refuge.

If you advance search their name you will see it is Swiss cheese because of the abusive nature of their posts. Calling Feminists alt right (white supremacist neo Nazis) with all that entails was to me the ultimate insult.