Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Has anyone else just discovered that they are a RadFem?

212 replies

loveyouradvice · 09/05/2018 15:17

I'd always thought of myself as a liberal feminist... yup, feminist to the core and ready to fight for women and girls where appropriate but not that knowledgeable - and happy to enjoy the fun of being a women (summer dresses, sexy flirting, beautiful bodies) while acknowledging the horrors (FGM, rape, systemic inequality)....

But who knew it.... It just takes the words Transwomen are men ... so very obvious to me on so many levels.... to turn me into a RadFem....

And I've moved from being happy to encounter the occasional Transwomen in the Ladies (in well-populated, chatty scenarios like clubs) ... treating us with respect and being treated with respect... to not wanting a Penis in any sex-segregated arena...to feel threatened by the incursion of men on "our" spaces....

to sleeping badly and wondering what kind of world we are developing for our DC where playing with the boundaries of gender stereotypes (like Boy George) is less acceptable and the blue/pink divide has become so much more entrenched and the almost automatic reaction to any gender dissatisfaction in the young is to explore whether they are trans, rather than their just questioning and exploring society and their role within it....

OP posts:
LassWiADelicateAir · 11/05/2018 00:36

Well joke or not Upstart DJ posted this earlier.

but I think that the similarity between rad fem ideology and socialist ideology make this group open to conversion. Men can be feminists too. They can't join rad fem organisation but IMO we can build a co-aoltion. If we can't convert our closet allies how can we change the world? We can't just kill the men...

DJLippy · 11/05/2018 00:31

Replace Capitalism with Patriarchy. Bourgeois = men. Proletariat = women. Means of production = womb. Suprlass value = offspring.

I am new to this whole malarkey, is that right? Does Karl Marx's personal financier and best mate Frederick Engles get to be a Radical Feminist even though he has a penis. He's dead so technically he's not a male, he's a corpse. No male privilege there..

He said that the family was the first class structure which was established when we started farming, rather than being hunter gatherers.....
www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/origin_family.pdf

Isn't that pretty close to radical feminism?

UpstartCrow · 11/05/2018 00:28

It was a joke Lass, to counter the heavy handed accusations that radical feminists are somehow right wing.

LassWiADelicateAir · 11/05/2018 00:16

UpstartCrow

RadFems are traditionally associated with Socialism. That seems to put a lot of people off for some reason
RedFems, if you will

Is it a fair assumption? Marxism/ socialism was mentioned early in the thread.

SupermatchGame · 11/05/2018 00:02

Lol. Yes because radical feminism is exactly like the far right.

Well you would think so reading the: 'The slogan ‘Trans women are women’ is a lie. This is my sincerely held belief.' thread.

polkadotwellies · 10/05/2018 23:39

I thought I was a radfem but now just class myself as a feminist.

thebewilderness · 10/05/2018 23:33

SmG will be calling us Feminazis like the creepy misogynist right wing supremacist who invented the term any minute now, when they know perfectly well we prefer Feminazgûl.

UpstartCrow · 10/05/2018 23:21

RadFems are traditionally associated with Socialism. That seems to put a lot of people off for some reason.
RedFems, if you will.

Grin
TalkingintheDark · 10/05/2018 23:20

Thanks for that background info LaSqrrl. I didn’t know most of that. Adds a few layers to my understanding of it. Bit more peak trans, really.

moofolk · 10/05/2018 22:41

@Loud. you are rad. own it. Flowers

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2018 22:38

I don't clash myself as a rad fem, but boy did my bullshit detector just do a lot of bleeping.

Given that alt right are quite into controlling women's reproduction and white male supremecy, I think the annual rad fem / alt right Christmas party would be a right barrel of laughs to be a fly on the wall at.

Ereshkigal · 10/05/2018 22:25

i was on twitter, looking at someones page who i know talks about TERFs and she reposted this

Shon Faye demonstrating the wit and maturity and empathy with women's lives we've all come to expect.

Ereshkigal · 10/05/2018 22:22

What's your radfem moment, SMG? Have you come to share the reasons you became aware of sex based oppression and the best approach to understanding it?

Ereshkigal · 10/05/2018 22:20

Lol. Yes because radical feminism is exactly like the far right.

SupermatchGame · 10/05/2018 22:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LaSqrrl · 10/05/2018 22:08

As for my personal path, I had no idea that I was a radfem until a bunch of online radfems called me one! Prior to that, I just thought I was 'a feminist'.

I had come to all the RF positions on my own, very unread really (and still so). I just started by questioning everything around me, usually a "How come..." And I clearly had the so-called 'humourless' part down well - when I was about 22, friends took me to a drag show. I saw nothing funny in the whole thing, and came away from it thinking "this is mocking women somehow, and not funny at all" just without the full vocabulary to describe why.

But I actually do have a sense of humour, I just don't find mocking the entire class of persons I belong to as funny. Womanface = blackface. Not funny, knock it off.

thebewilderness · 10/05/2018 22:07

I remember that first time I asked what it meant to be a Radical Feminist instead of a plain old women's libber like myself and they said it meant examining the root causes of women's oppression, it made a tiny little shift in what I heard from that moment on when someone called someone else a "radical".

LaSqrrl · 10/05/2018 22:00

(including Kimberly Nixon’s war of attrition against Vancouver Rape Relief)

A great way to summarise it, Talking. War of attrition, indeed it was. But what set the whole thing off, was that Nixon would not take 'no' for an answer. It was VRR's standard policy that there was a two-year gap between being a client, and being trained to be a counsellor, you know, the rule for ALL WOMEN. But no, Nixon decided 'they' wanted to after 12-18 months. Frankly, to almost financially ruin an organisation like that, shows that the person is not suitable to work there. VRR always took trans as clients (hence Nixon was a client), but that fight made them dig in their heels and no accept trans as counsellors (way to go, with an own goal there Nixon). To this day, they will still take on trans as clients. But still get protested by the TRAs and handmaidens as to how 'transphobic' they are. WTAF.

Nixon v VRR can be summarised:
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

TheClitterati · 10/05/2018 21:46

This thread makes me want to cry with happiness.

I often feel so alone in feminism and in the world. I want to be super radical and active and fighting, and yet all my energy is taken up being a full time Working single parent of 2 girls. I do the little I can.

And I've been a radfem for years. I started out radfem, went a bit woo liberal for a while in the middle there Blush, and straight back to being radical post children.

I 💚💜💚💜 you all and this thread makes me feel so happy and not alone.

[i do love a bit of PIV sex though - but that seems quite acceptable even for radfems these days GrinGrin)

TheMythOfFingerprints · 10/05/2018 21:40

Not just but fairly recently in the scheme of things.

I had kind of avoided because of the word "radical" which is ironic, because what the fucking fuck is radical about believing that women don't have penises?!

moofolk · 10/05/2018 21:30

Also it comes with age, wisdom and impatience.

moofolk · 10/05/2018 21:29

Not as recently but I realised I had accidentally become a radical feminist by maintaining actual feminist ideals whilst the scourge of neoliberalism ate away at everything around me to create a slew of people who thought they were edgy who were also taking their clothes off as a form of (empowering) entertainment and had a startling lack of class analysis.

A good friend pointed me to Lierre Keith and Gail Dines, and the idea that she had 'become radfem by standing still' (I know you're here somewhere, say hi!), and that was me radicalised. Or that and my 37-year-old ex boyfriend saying that now he was 'a girl' he 'had to' shave his legs. No.

Welcome! @loveyouradvice

esk1mo · 10/05/2018 20:41

i was on twitter, looking at someones page who i know talks about TERFs and she reposted this

mobile.twitter.com/shonfaye/status/994582360355229697

not particularly sure i understand the thread, but im getting there

Branleuse · 10/05/2018 20:36

I was libfem up to a couple of years ago. I think I got called a terf and quite laid into by some activists on a trans friends fb (TIF) and the more I looked into it, the more i realised - damn right. I cant even BELIEVE this self ID bullshit. You have to be pretty fucking stupid to not see the unintended consequences of this proposal, however well meaning.

TalkingintheDark · 10/05/2018 20:14

Love this thread. So good to see so many women thinking along the same/similar lines as me in a world that otherwise seems to have gone completely batshit.

I’ve always identified as a feminist but after being quite active in my younger days kind of stepped back from it all, and had no idea this schism was developing. I don’t think I ever rightly understood what radfem meant, probably made the same false assumption as many others that “radical” meant extreme rather than from the root.

Found MN as a very late in life mother, and one day about two or three years ago came across a trans thread in AIBU. Literally couldn’t believe what I was reading; went off and googled everything and found out it was all true. There is indeed a law that allows people to be issued with a new birth certificate with a big fat lie on it. The cotton ceiling. Transing of kids. The fact that most TIMs don’t have “bottom surgery” and the concept of the “female penis”; the erosion of sex segregated spaces (including Kimberly Nixon’s war of attrition against Vancouver Rape Relief).

And eventually I realised the word “woman” has been hijacked to mean... absolutely nothing at all, any more; and there is no longer a single, unifying word that denotes all those born female, and only those. And it was like the world I thought I knew disappeared overnight and I really didn’t like the new one I was confronted with.

It was just a gigantic multiple peak trans all at once. I never bought into any of it at all, although I have seriously reflected on the issues raised and tried to see if I can find anything that rings true in TRA ideology, just in the interests of not being closed minded. (Answer: no)

I was definitely gender critical from then on but I wasn’t sure if I identified as radfem exactly. Then one day recently I was thinking about how whatever women do to stand up for our rights, men/men under patriarchy find a new way to beat us back down, and of course transactivism is just the latest instalment in a very long history of that. It really became obvious that the problem is a fundamental view of women as other/lesser that is SO ingrained and part of our collective unconscious that most people don’t even realise it’s there, most of the time. And that unless that is addressed, patriarchy is just going to find new ways to oppress women, and we’re still going to be in the shit however many years hence.

So I realised that I must be a radfem after all.

Wrt to how we actually implement this change/tackle misogyny at its root, I think we have to address the unconscious aspect of it as that’s where so much of the problem is. All these brocialists, they honestly don’t realise that they see women as lesser, or by how much, I don’t think. And the catch 22 is that their unconscious miosgyny prevents them from hearing from us that they are part of the problem as of course we don’t merit listening to. But it needs to start with us, with a return to consciousness raising, for us, and with the way we raise the next generation, the awareness we give them, girls and boys.

Women getting together and talking, sharing experiences, learning from each other. Like we do on here; and in RL. Women writing, using all available spaces and outlets to spread our ideas around. That’s the first step. And in that respect I agree with others that transactivism actually has the potential to rejuvenate feminism, in the way it’s made so many of us see so clearly just HOW misogynist the world still is, and made us so determined to fight that.