Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"I feel like a woman"

190 replies

pearsapplesbananas · 09/05/2018 07:01

I am a transgender woman. The following doesn't in any way pretend to be a universal account of all trans women's experiences and thoughts, just mine.

When I say "I feel like a woman" to somebody, what I mean is:

I wish I was born in a female body. I wish I had a female reproductive system, and that I could carry a child. Every time I look into the mirror, I want to smash my face against it. Every time I look at a "normal" family, my heart sinks, because I will likely never get to have that. Hormones make me feel less bad. Besides easing my physical dysphoria, they have also important psychological effects (like some women experience with their cycles). They are a tool that helps me deal with my… bad luck at birth.

But I'm slowly starting to empower myself. Coming out of this endless spiral of self-disgust and self-pity. I might be wrong but, from what I read, it seems like there is a discussion framed as a dichotomy: that giving me a decent chance to life is a direct attack on women's rights. Well, I wouldn't see how, and of course, I wouldn't want it to be.

As a consequence, both sides of the discussion attack each other. Often, with what I consider cruelty, inhumanity and viciousness, lacking the most basic empathy. It's as if we all left our humanity at home, for our families and loved ones, and were fighting as animals against each other.

I think both sides could benefit from working together, we have many things to teach one another and many fights in common. For example, better healthcare. I read a post on this forum, about the access to laser by women with PCOS. In all honesty, I don't think a single transgender woman would oppose this. In fact, it's something that I (and many others) would advocate for. Similarly, there are many other topics framed as dichotomies that would more likely be solved if they weren't.

The only people benefiting from all this is people who regard women and transgender people as lesser than.

OP posts:
smithsinarazz · 11/05/2018 15:23

@MrsSnips - so sorry to hear about your experience. Just shows that there are arseholes on either side of any debate. Also, yes, my friend Lizzie went through hell 20 + years ago, being beaten up, total strangers putting cigarettes out in her drink, etc - it's not just a matter of the Lilys of this world putting on airs to be interesting.

Pears -thanks for your contribution. I'm sorry you've had such a hard time. I can't speak for everyone else - and wouldn't want to - but I hope many GC people support your right to live as whatever the hell you want, without harassment or prejudice - as long as your rights don't override anyone else's, of course. Thanks for your willingness to enter into discussion.

Mrssnips · 11/05/2018 15:05

@LaSqrrl. No I didn't name anyone. I mentioned one person in particular that appears to be stalking me, through my friends, and others who have verbally abused me. Like I said. I believe that there are right and wrong views on both sides (and some downright idiots on both sides). I'm actually a healthcare worker and so have a professional interest in this and have some trans women who I consider friends (not all involved in activism). Most just want to get on with their lives.
I have questions too as a HCW about trans issues (men and women for both exist and yet you all seem to be obsessed with one side). I struggle with the idea as a HCW of puberty blockers however there has long ( as long as I have been a HCW - over 30 years) been reports of people such as our OP who have experienced things like abdominal pain on a monthly basis at the time of puberty. I've also been involved in supporting people during their transition, and no-one does it because they want what little we women have fought for.

I have also seen some extreme self harm in trans women frustrated at the lack of progress in their medical transition - one individual cut their own genitalia off with a Swiss Army knife. I have never seen so much blood from one individual and I have worked in A&E for a long time. If you honestly believe that someone would do that just cos they want to go into a female changing room and abuse women then there really is no hope for you.

I'm really trying to come at this from understanding both sides. But when I look at the behaviour and language used by some people, it makes me want to weep. They are saying things that are in the same vein as what was being said about Irish and POC in the 50s 60s and 70s and about the LGB community in the 80s and about disabled rights in the 90s. Only time will tell who is on the right side of history.

LaSqrrl · 11/05/2018 13:21

So you named one. Probably MHI? But one.
I have also been abused (albeit only verbally) by many other gender critical people just for being a trans ally.

Yeah, it sucks when people call you out for throwing women under the bus for 'being a trans ally', doesn't it? But it's not abuse, just truth. Your trans buddies want to take away the privacy, autonomy, and everything else for women, but you support them. Good for you! It's just NOT feminism, it is trans activism. Again, stating the truth, not abuse. Let's just hope it doesn't come back to bite you.

I have seen many a 'trans ally' suddenly realise what it is they are actually supporting. Maybe you will too one day. Maybe not. Time will tell.

It makes me so warm and fuzzy that you can dismiss the daily threats of 'DIAF' directed towards feminists, but have no concept that the Burning Times were only a couple of hundred years ago. It seems that many women are ignorant of women's history, particularly those of the 'trans supporting' nature. I suspect there is a connection.

Mrssnips · 11/05/2018 13:01

@20pencepiece
"I appreciate your post but I must pull you up on this paragraph. The viciousness you describe is not on both sides it is 99% one sided from the TRA's.".

I beg to differ. I am practically being stalked by one 'gender 'critical' person who I won't name here. She repeatedly gets her really quite nasty FB page taken down, then starts a new one with a different name. Then she befriends my friends (we live in the same area of London) and starts rowing with me. And its really hate filled stuff. I have also been abused (albeit only verbally) by many other gender critical people just for being a trans ally. I agree that there are idiots on both sides but it's not as biased as you stated.

LaSqrrl · 11/05/2018 12:56

Seconded, Empress

EmpressOfSpartacus · 11/05/2018 08:21

Has pears even responded to all of these messages? I cant find any response in the thread.

No. Perhaps pears didn't like the responses.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 11/05/2018 05:39

Ershkigal
"Lesson learnt at 16 years of age--don't ever make a man look stupid.

Leggere, totally relate to this!"

Yep. My daughter learned this lesson at 10 years old, when her quick wit and cutting snark accidentally gave a boy back better than he was giving. She was baffled that someone who had been a good friend suddenly turned into a giant asshole.

Aurellia · 11/05/2018 05:24

Has pears even responded to all of these messages? I cant find any response in the thread.

I would love to see a detailed analysis of transwomen's acknowledgement of their male privilege and socialisation. There have been instances of transmen transitioning from female to male, discussing how they moved to a far privileged category. Being gendered as a man carries so much privilege.

Ereshkigal · 11/05/2018 01:23

Lesson learnt at 16 years of age--don't ever make a man look stupid.

Leggere, totally relate to this!

LaSqrrl · 10/05/2018 22:32

At a guess Wicked, inferiority - deep down, subconsciously, I think they know that. And just like schoolyard bullies, that inferiority drives them to take down anyone they see as a threat of exposing their inferiority.

Because, most of patriarchy is pure reversal. Once you understand that and look for 'the reversals', everything will just 'click'. So their big gaslight that men are more important, superior, more intelligent actually translates to 'men are less important, inferior, less intelligent' (to the species). The bonus for them off that, they have a slave class in which to get a load of unpaid labour. The latter is why patriarchy will be so hard to get rid of, even Nice Guys benefit from the system. Nice Guys are even aware of how they benefit.

elderflowerandrose · 10/05/2018 18:56

I have respect for everyone.
Including transwomen and men.

If the trans community wish to have the very powerful support of women then in my humble view, they need to be fighting for unisex facilities alongsidewomen’s and men’s facilities. Not forcing their way into other people’s spaces.

A true transwoman would understand the vulnerability of young girls and older ones when it comes to changing etc.

So unless there is an ephipany of clear thinking of the consequences to women and children then there will be no meeting or minds.

Entrenched positions never work. Open debate, discussion and consensus usually does.

therealposieparker · 10/05/2018 18:45

With respect I have absolutely nothing to learn from transwomen.

leggere · 10/05/2018 18:19

No, must be too scared? They are going to have to man up a bit to become a woman!

Greymisty · 10/05/2018 18:15

Did the OP ever return?

leggere · 10/05/2018 18:13

Just out of interest Pears, how are you going to handle incidents like that. Menacing, threatening, but no one else can see it?

leggere · 10/05/2018 18:07

Is that why so many misogynistic men hate it when women make them look stupid? just brought on a horrid flashback! I was 16, at a disco. Dancing with a large bearded bloke (about 25). I was wearing a long blonde (colour relevant) wig and he kept pulling it teasingly. I shouted over the music three times to stop it and pushed his hand off. I could feel the wig slipping and was worried it was going to come off in front of everyone. He kept doing it so I walked off the dance floor. A bit later he found me, pressed me against the wall, put his face right in mine and snarled "don't you ever fucking do anything like that again, blondie". As he was snarling/menacing, he was covertly tipping his glass of beer all down my front. Ran off with my friend to the bouncers, who laughed and said it was my own fault for walking off mid dance. He did it in such a way that my friend didn't even see the beer being tipped and thought he was talking close to my face because of the loud music. His mates were also standing nearby, I think they knew what he'd planned to do because they were laughing and looking embarrassed at the same time. The worst thing was, the look of sheer hatred in his face looking right into my eyes! Lesson learnt at 16 years of age--don't ever make a man look stupid.

WickedLazy · 10/05/2018 16:34

Bloodmagic that was an excellent post, you summed up a lot of the thoughts that were whirring around my head, quite articulately.

Why is misogyny still such a thing? What's the root cause? Is it a feeling of inadequacy, or fear of the potential for feeling like that? Is that why so many misogynistic men hate it when women make them look stupid? Or is it an actual sincere belief that men are better, and women inferior?

LaSqrrl · 10/05/2018 12:09

In 2018, did you ever think you had to read on the internet:
And women are adult female humans and they don’t have penises.

Me neither.

R0wantrees · 10/05/2018 10:52

NB apologies, both names above refer to Twitter accounts, not Mumsnet ones. I should have made that clear.

Opheliah · 10/05/2018 10:52

But they haven't even bothered to "seagull"

R0wantrees · 10/05/2018 10:51

I would encourage pearsapplesbananas to follow @JustAngryBird (founder of Trans Oxford) and @RoseOfDawn for their nuanced perspectives. They are both trans women.

This (long) thread from @JustAngryBird is really interesting and begins,

"Sex Wars and how to end them

What makes a woman? We all know that biology makes a female of the species with a distinctly different reproductive system from that of a male. There’s no arguing about it. And women are adult female humans and they don’t have penises."

twitter.com/JustAngryBird/status/994143600144502784

TwittleBee · 10/05/2018 10:42

LaSqrrl oh god I just Googled "Seagulling" on my work's PC! Ooops haha hadn't heard that term before

LaSqrrl · 10/05/2018 10:39

Seems we may have shattered Pear's world view that trans have it worse than women.

Either that, or a bit of seagulling. Who knows?

Springnowplease · 10/05/2018 07:59

I'm really sorry that you are so unhappy with the cards that nature dealt you. However, I think it would be better for you to come to terms with who you are, and learn to love yourself as you are, a transwoman.

You will never be what you wish to be. And trying to steal women's rights and places won't make any difference. You were born a man.

We were born women and only we can possibly know what it feels like to be women.

thebewilderness · 10/05/2018 06:43

I think it is only fair to mention the rules.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

Swipe left for the next trending thread