TW are the most vulnerable? Errrrr....

Sarah: I have no science to this

Yeah, you have no science. Only what the TRAs have spoonfed you.

" I have no science to this but I am prepared to believe that transwomen are more likely to be targeted for random attacks and hate crimes than, for example, a white middle class woman."

It would be interesting to know this.

They may be, maybe not.

The social view of sex offences as "not violent crime" obfuscates a lot of the offences committed against women.

This I think is because the sort of things that are done to men have historically been recognised as criminal but the sort of things that are done to women are in a non violent, what do they expect, no harm done category, up to and including rape by someone known to the victim and where they don't also include "proper" violence like a punch in the face.

I have been physically attacked by strange men a couple of times, aside from all the sexual assaults, and I'm middle class and white. There isn't really a "safe" category, as it's so prevalent, although some groups of women and girls are clearly more at risk.

Was also going to say -

And yet with all the risk of violence from men, the main narrative is that it is women who are a danger to them...

???

Male violence is the problem, and when a person is read as a "man dressed as a woman" then some men react with violent homophobia.

It's not the same as the violence agianst women (although linked) and it's not women who are committing this violence.

The claim that women are the cause of any violence to trans people - when it is men committing that violence - is simply the usual idea that anythign a man does is the fault of a woman. Also misogynistic, and also obscuring the real problem.

I agree that TW are at risk of male violence, SarahCarer, including as a result of internalised homophobia. I'd be completely behind a campaign to end male violence, to "reclaim the men's toilets", to enable non-GC men of all varieties to live a life without the risk of assault. If only TRAs put a fraction of their significant campaigning energies into this rather than telling women to move up on the bench and cede our hard-fought for protections, eh

Two wrongs don't make a Right.

It's wrong for TW to be physically attacked (whether by transphobic men or anyone else).

It's wrong for males to demand access to places which are segregated by sex for women's protection.

What is right is to denounce all violence (and be free to note it's mostly committed by males).

It's right if TW need sanctuary from male violence they should be able to campaign for it in the same way women campaign for women's refuges etc.

Olennas yes

weakened man =/= woman

This idea is highly misogynistic.

Hmm. I think we sometimes downplay the risks tw face on here. I have observed the force of male homophobia and hatred and fear that goes along with that. I have no science to this but I am prepared to believe that transwomen are more likely to be targeted for random attacks and hate crimes than, for example, a white middle class woman. And if they have trans identified for much of their life I can see how their socialisation and possibly victimisation might make them as fearful as us. It is still the fault of men and this is for men to solve. We are busy fighting for our own rights and protections. More so now.

Yy Sardine

I don't think men realise how much weaker than them women really are. I've seen plenty of accounts from transwomen who talk about their muscle mass reducing after being on hormone therapy, but I would bet my bottom dollar that average transwoman on hormones is still stronger than average woman. My 13 year old son is stronger than me in my mid-40s, after all, and he hasn't had the benefit of full puberty yet and I'm reasonably strong and healthy.

Well I'm not at all sure about that.

Men in general are attacked by other men a fair bit and there is plenty of damage and murder done. Men come in all shapes and sizes and clearly a small man (trans or not) would not stand a chance against a larger man or an armed one.

I also am sure that transwomen who don't pass and who do "present" as women (ie are not "masculine" in presentation ie wearing mens clothes) are at risk of ridicule and violence (although they don't seem to realise how much shit women and girls get which is interesting).

How do we know that big person was "trans" and anyway someone nicked the thing off the floor so it looks like their bag was stolen anyway... Weird video.

I believe that transwomen are at risk from male violence but

• why women have to sort this out for them is ???
• are they more at risk than women and girls? I would be interested to really compare, I think there is an issue that as ex men, like other men, they have NO IDEA of everything that happens to us, and also like many other men, they don't listen and they don't care. Like there was a plea for women to donate money to trans women to get cabs home after nights out so they felt safe, how bonkersly tone deaf is that?