Genderquake

Okay - backspaced enough times to find my post

Here we go:

_

Just watched this on Catch Up and was surprised that I (kind of) enjoyed it, albeit in what felt like a very voyeuristic way.

(I'm just going to use they/them for everyone btw)

Brooke is lovely, very feminine in looks and voice. I was shocked when they said they had a penis.

Campbell is very attractive; I'd say they pass apart from the voice. I think their relationship with Howie is purely for validation - 'oooh a lesbian fancies me' kind of thing.

Howie annoys me, they seem rather predatory. Makes me wonder how hard they pursued the straight women they spoke about.

Charlie (think I've got the right name) doesn't come close to passing imo; very masculine face. Seems quite bitchy.

Marcus - I went from liking to actively disliking them. It's one thing confronting Romario but another 'outing' them to Filomena. In some ways I can understand why but I felt it was coming from a place of gossip/nastiness rather than concern for Filomena.

Filomena. Meh, nothing stands out about them.

Tom (?). Nice looking bloke. Erm that's it really.

Romario I think passes as a man; I'd probably fancy them if they chatted me up. I don't like the way they started something with Filomena without telling them they were trans though, that was wrong imo.

Saffron; seems a funny and pleasant person. Clearly female despite the Peaky Blinders style haircut.

The other bloke. No idea of their name. Can't really remember anything about them.

Someone called Dan I think? Black bobbed hair. Pretty. Hardly featured.

Can't remember if there was anyone else.

@Italiangreyhound

Even with my VPN I can't get 4bcatchup. I can get ch4 in streaming but that's about it. I'll see if it's in later on in the week

Post it again.

I would if I could remember what it was I posted - was quite a long one.

The only thing I can think of was I said I didn't feel one of the participants 'passed' due to having rather masculine features.

Post it again.

Current guidelines seem to be that if anyone on Twitter complains, the post is deleted.

Poor things, they must be shit scared of us. Imagine spending your days policing what mums say online.

Please can MNHQ email me, or state here, what was against guidelines in my deleted post.

Not being goady, I genuinely want to know so I don't do it again

"Message deleted by MNHQ."

Seriously? What on earth did I post that was against guidelines? I didn't misgender anyone, I used they/them for everyone - gay, straight or trans - deliberately so that I didn't misgender anyone

From The Independent;

"Transgender campaigners and organisations have released an open letter to Channel 4 criticising Genderquake, a season of programmes touted as an exploration of the gender debate, as "counterproductive".

Signees are particularly concerned about Genderquake: The Debate, a studio discussion hosted by Cathy Newman that promises to look at what gender means in 2018. It will discuss topics including: 'what defines our gender identity', 'how that affects our rights', 'should it be easier to change gender' and 'does gender matter'.

The letter, published by indy100 in full below, argues that the debate will give legitimacy to transphobia, prejudice and the notion that trans identities are up for discussion. This concern is presumably stoked by the presence of Australian-born academic and writer Germaine Greer on the panel, who has previously said transgender women "can't be women". continues with copy of letter:
www.indy100.com/article/genderquake-the-debate-transphobia-channel-4-open-letter-campaigners-germaine-greer-8341481

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3243464-Channel-4s-Genderquake-Debate-is-heavily-criticised-boycotted-by-prominent-transgender-activists-allies

@GaspingShark "
They did say they wouldn't be putting themselves through all this if it they didn't have to. It was almost as though they thought they were more qualified to comment upon their psyche than you are"

As someone with an eating disorder brought on by OCD and someone has experienced anxiety 'attacks' etc I don't generally assume everything people experience or believe about themselves is necessarily true. We are not always our own best friends, only doing for ourselves what is good and authentic for ourselves.

I really do not believe women need to bind their breasts to be themselves. You are totally entitled to disagree.

@Amalfimamma it was on all four on catch up last night.

Do you think Romero was testing whether or not he could attract a straight 'normal' woman? Not in a creepy predatory way but in a attempt to validate his transness as it were?

I really felt this to be the case. I read this as Romario believing his "rights" to validation trumped Filomena's "rights" to make an informed choice.

I caught most of it, the 2 TW came across incredibly bitchy, particularly when discussing Romario at the beach, and managed to make it all about them and how hurt they were and not being told.

I agree with those who said they seemed to be putting on a hyper femininity act.

I felt very sad for Saffron, some serious self esteem issues there.

People with Kleinfelter syndrome are Male, genetically. You can have several X chromosomes (XXY, XXXY etc) but if you have a Y you’re Male.

Somebody up thread said there were no TRA types/not political.

I did notice in the credits that Jake Graf had a mention, given he is a transmen and a patron of Mermaids, I imagine the people selected were carefully filtered.

whathavei yes thats true that klinefelters can cause female type characteristics but i feel the show should have explained it better, because many people think klinefelters means half male half female when it doesnt. They are still male. Brooke came across well on the show so far.

The lesbian is not a lesbian but a bisexual. It makes no sense to say labels are not important when she chooses to identify as a female then becomes sexually atracted to a male. That means shes not a lesbian and it can be damaging to lesbians to be portayed as womwn who can be swayed by feminised men.

The bitchyness in there is so horrid.

Maybe next..

There was just something in the way some of it came across.

But I can't help but wonder if there will be that underlying question at some point in the future.....

I also wondered if being in a house where you aren't different or special in some way is really a safe haven or whether they will kinda enter some contest where they constantly try and out do eachother somehow

marthaartha just to pick up on a few points you made.
Klinefelters being xxy means they have sexual characteristics of both sexes and I thought most developed breasts unless treated with hormones during puberty. I always thought nowadays they allowed them to decide which gender they preferred and used hormones just to help. so as she said her body transitioned on its own, that fits in with what I already understood about klinefelters.

The lesbian is entitled to fancy whoever she likes and I thought we were moving away from strict categories. The 'woman' she seems attracted to does look quite feminine so stands to reason she may fancy her. Doesn't mean all lesbians have to fancy transwomen obviously. I thought she came across quite genuine.

I agree with others that the one I felt sorry for was Saffron. She just needs to accept who she is and stop worrying about labels.
Interesting program though despite the silly scene with the girls having a bath together. Seriously - who does that?!

Giles

I don’t think that’s fair. They’re all stangers thrown together and only known each other for a few days in manufactured, manipulated weird circumstances- and what we see is edited for a purpose they can’t control.

I’m fairly impressed so far and think the group are doing as well as they can under the circumstances.

“The problem with being trans is you can't. Because you are biologically a different gender to the one you want to be life is one long game of dressing up. Hence the ultra femininity and always worried about passing of the 2 transwomen.
I'd love to see being a feminine bloke become more acceptable, not camp as that's a different game with different rules that also seems artificial“

I wonder if we lived in a society where we sll dressed the same, all had shaven or short hair, no make up etc - would gender/ gender identity even be a thing?

I've just watched this now. Haven't read the full thread so apologies for any repetition etc.

It made me rather angry tbh

I felt really sorry for saffron and Brooke they seemed to just have been dragged into something that's not about who they are.

Tbh I do t understand how they can all be friends the relationships all seem built on validation. They don't seem to really care about eachother half as much as they feel is an achievent that a lesbian fancies them.

Marcus had no right to out romario but then i think he had a point in that everyone else was talking behind his back and he was the only one who had the decency to say it to his face and they all blame Marcus now?

This is what happens when you live on a house full of people who are liars. You can't trust any of them and o tho k you lose the right to be surprised it goes tits up tbh

It woukd be different if hey were all just casual acquaintances you'd not have any kind of real relationship with them so it wouldn't matter.

It all just contradicts itself so much and tbh they all seemed sodding confused which is hardly surprising

Also agree with what Hypp said. If you need to mutilate yourself to fulfil your ideology, then your ideology has gone awry.

The anti-trans ideology which has attached itself to the extremes of feminism is despicable
The anti woman ideology that has attached itself to the extremes of trans rights is despicable.

Hound: we say 'trans'women are men' because it's true. That's all. It will never stop being true. Yes it's boring. Not much we can do about that.

Yes but I'm not yet dead or in my dotage. So personally speaking, Tibet, I'm not just going to step aside and let women be erased and our sex based oppression rendered invisible. Sorry for the inconvenience. I'm actually thinking more of the next generation and the need to safeguard them from the thoughtless narcissistic idiocy of this one, and my own.