Dirty protest over Somerville College, Oxford’s gender‑neutral loos

Oooh we can't have men being inconvenienced.

Natsku
Isn't this 'unisex loo one that is zoned 'men' and 'gender neutral?

I saw decent unisex toilets last month - if people are going to insist on unisex toilets then going for ones like these are the way to go. Sink area open to the public lobby so less risk of someone getting assaulted there, floor to ceiling walls around the cubicles, and separate area with urinals behind a door clearly labelled for men.

And no venue wants men pissing all over the place.

In case it wasn't obvious what I meant!

Urinals are practical and pragmatic.

Men who don't like them have cubicles to use as well.

If they were all taken away, the toilets at eg large football stadiums would need to be the size of a small town.

(And they would be, because men would not accept long queues, and venues would want to accomodate them, and also because lots of men would simply find a corner and piss in there instead).

I thought Somerville voted not to introduce unisex toilets. I’m sure it made national news a while ago...

surely men don't really need urinals?

Without urinals, the queues for public male loos would likely be more similar in length to those for women's loos.

There may also be issues around how effectively public men's loos are kept clean?

Slightly ot but surely men don't really need urinals? They don't design them into their own homes!

Pissing on the floors in the college named for the woman whose work they used to teach but was not allowed in the door because she was female.
What could be more manly than that?

The article reads like it was one idiot who has pissed on the floor and scrawled something on the wall, hardly a mass protest.
At least they had a vote before introducing it I suppose

Christ, back in the 80s we had a "silent protest" against Somerville losing its single sex status, where we all lined up in academic dress. We cared because there were sod-all opportunities for women. For instance, in maths, while the overall figures for women undergrads were in line with the national average (roughly 15%) the few women that there were were mostly concentrated in the three remaining women's colleges. We even knew of college admissions tutors who boasted about not taking women.

We had eminent female mathematicians, physicists, chemists among the fellows. Dorothy Hodgkin (Nobel Prize) had been a fellow; the physics fellow was an FRS.

We won that time round, but Somerville went mixed not long after. There are now no female fellows in STEM subjects in Somerville.

Now men at Somerville have noticed that they've lost their single sex loos and their idea of a protest is to piss over the floor.

Female vs. male socialisation, anyone?

(Temporary namechange as this outs where I went to university and roughly when).

Discussion of the NUStrans18 conference by Rose of Dawn.
Covers the 'occupation' of the gender neutral loo (previously the women's loo) and wider important issues including the power of non-binary ideology & hard left politics & what Rose describes as a new "homeopathic definition of woman".

Some women feel uncomfortable about haveing people with a penis use their toilets. Because some people with a penis also feel uncomfortable when using facilities for people with a penis, women get fucked over

So now the men have to queue up as long as woman have to, because there are never enough women's loos. And the woman have to queue up longer than they used to, and suffer piss on the floor. What a literal and figurative mess

Some trans people may feel pressured to use the gender-neutral toilets if they exist. Making sure this isn’t the case is vital

‘Some people may still be such snowflakes they’re upset by the existence of an entirely separate facility created for them at the expense of facilities for other groups. Women however, can continue to fuck off...’

2017 NUS Briefing www.nusconnect.org.uk/resources/gender-neutral-toilets-briefing
Introduction by Melantha Chittenden, NUS LGBT+ Officer (Women’s Place)

"Gender-neutral Toilets are a necessary step to ensuring that trans, non-binary and gender non-conforming students have a safe environment where they can use the bathroom.
For trans students, gendered bathrooms can be spaces where they are met with intimidation, harassment and/or violence. This occurs when people police the identities of others based on binary assumptions of what men and women look and act like.
Some trans students may also simply not want to define their gender by choosing a toilet based on gender. When a toilet is gender neutral a person does not have to choose a bathroom that does not align with their gender identity.
It’s important to note that whilst gender-neutral toilets are important, we must also work to ensure that trans students feel safe when using gendered toilets. Some trans people may feel pressured to use the gender-neutral toilets if they exist. Making sure this isn’t the case is vital
– we recommend ensuring any staff that have contact with students are trained in trans inclusion to ensure the safety and wellbeing of trans students.
This briefing was created with the purpose of helping students’ unions lobby their institutions to implement Gender-neutral Toilets on campus..." continues

Having gender-neutral toilets ensures that these people will not be forced to choose the ‘best option’ toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with

But it does force people to do that and it does stop people using a toilet they are comfortable with. But those people are all women so who gives a shiny fuck, is that right?

So in effect; absolutely everybody else’s wishes and preferences over the needs of women. Again.

"Having gender-neutral toilets ensures that these people will not be forced to choose the ‘best option’ toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with."

Pity that changing to them is generally done in ways that lead to women having to use an 'only option' toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with.

Calling them gender-neutral seems misleading as well. What they are is unisex.

They can be used by anyone, regardless of gender, without fear of
incident, discrimination or harassment."

Sure, they can. As we all know, unisex toilets have never under any circumstances caused anyone to fear harassment or other incidents.

@WeAreGerbil
But women can't choose the toilet they actually feel comfortable with if that's a women only one!

Fuck them. We're talking about men's feelings here, get your priorities right.

From 2015
NUS LGBT+ Briefing paper
www.nusconnect.org.uk/resources/gender-neutral-toilets-guide
[extract]
"Who uses gender-neutral toilets?
The simple answer is anyone! That is the whole point of ‘neutralising’ the gendered signage
on the doors of the toilets. They can be used by anyone, regardless of gender, without fear of
incident, discrimination or harassment.
Often, a gender-neutral toilet is a positive choice for those with more ambiguous gender
presentation or those who do not fit into the rigid categories of looking like a ‘man’ or a ‘woman’.
People with a more ambiguous gender presentation can be subject to discrimination whichever
gendered toilet they use, and therefore a gender-neutral toilet can provide a safer alternative to
traditional male and female toilets. These people may or may not identify as trans, or as LGBT.
Some trans people identify outside of the gender binary, and choose not to define their gender as
either a man or woman. Having gender-neutral toilets ensures that these people will not be forced
to choose the ‘best option’ toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with."

Text:

A term after an Oxford college introduced gender-neutral lavatories, male students have carried out a “dirty protest” over losing their urinals.

Last week they urinated on the floor of the “gender-neutral” cubicles in the bar at Somerville College, Oxford, and wrote on the wall: “We want our f urinals back”, according to an email sent by the president of the junior common room, Niall Macklin. In a message entitled “I can’t believe I am writing this”, Macklin said: “[Last night] someone took it upon themselves to urinate on the floor of one of the cubicles and inscribe ‘We want our f urinals back’. If you have a problem with the changes please use the democratic process and not dirty protests.

“Otherwise if you could refrain from being a barbaric idiot that would be great.”

Somerville students voted in January to replace “male” and “female” signs with the words “gender-neutral toilets with cubicles”. The lavatories in question no longer feature urinals but have cubicles with male and female symbols.

Somerville, which opened in 1879, was one of Oxford’s first women’s colleges and is Margaret Thatcher’s alma mater. It declares on its website that it was “founded to include the excluded”.

Three years ago, the then principal Alice Prochaska encouraged students to speak out against “laddish” behaviour such as “groping at social events, loud jokes in public places about rape and . . . homophobic remarks in student meetings”.

Other Oxford colleges including Wadham, Balliol, St Hugh’s and St John’s have brought in gender-neutral lavatories to make transgender students feel comfortable.

Somerville said it had told students that “vandalism” would not be tolerated, adding: “We expect all college members to treat each other with respect.”

My dh works in a college and he probably wouldn’t notice the difference. Regularly soiled by people who should know better so prob the same in a university. Having to clean up blood, shit, urine on floors/walls on a daily basis.

@Bowlofbabelfish
Make that space fully disabled accessible- as per ‘changing places’ guidelines and look! Everyone is served and safe.

Disabled rights activists point out that their spaces were fought for, and shouldn't be taken away.