Cotton ceiling?

That sounds rather like how de transitioners are often treated in the trans community - silenced and rejected as much as possible by the people who would understand the most what they're going through. And exactly how we're seeing transsexual people treated.

I don't hear them complaining though. Whilst I have no doubt it is an inferior facsimile, they don't know what the real thing is like and they seem quite happy and complete afterwards, strangely.

They are complaining though. The transgender advocates berate them for it so they stfu or take it to private crying.
The statistic that stands out regarding regret is that the suicide rate remains the same after genital surgery.

It also nicely encapsulates the belief that for women, feelings and sexual pleasure must take a back seat to doing what is right by male born people according to male born people and should be focused on political correctness and service. Basically sex is for the benefit of male born people and not for women to enjoy.

Welcome back to the 16th Century.

Well this made me sign up! I have never in my whole long life heard anything so offensive to women. I have been reading these discussions since yesterday and getting more and more angry and terrified!

I hadn't seen that post Ereshkigal. Yup, that sums it up really. All poor me without any empathy or respect for lesbians to choose their own sexual partners. Very creepy.

I don't hear them complaining though. Whilst I have no doubt it is an inferior facsimile, they don't know what the real thing is like and they seem quite happy and complete afterwards, strangely.

What Bewilderness said. Do you think you're doing a kindness by telling male people that a surgeon can make them a vagina, those of you who think that's a great way to spare someone's feelings? You're not. Because those who have it done will soon discover for themselves that what they end up with does not function like an actual vagina at all, and many of them will have complications associated with that surgery for the rest of their lives.

Nobody should be going into major surgery without a clear picture of all the things that could go wrong and realistic expectations about what the surgery can and cannot achieve. It is not a kindness to withhold that information.

It's also not a kindness not to tell trans people that transition will probably reduce their potential pool of sexual partners significantly. Again, this is something people should know before making major decisions rather than after.

(Though not having known is obviously no excuse for the kind of rapey bullshit epitomized by the cotton ceiling concept. Nobody deserves access to the bodies of other people.)

I believe Riley has a youtube lecture about how lesbians how won't submit to dick are bigotted bastards

Does Riley have any other theme? Not that I am aware of!
Oh, and referring to the other thread (Grass Account) as to the many libfem sites that have become trans sites, I think RJD was from Everyday Feminism or whatever.

I believe Riley has a youtube lecture

Riley is a YouTube laughing stock. There are countless response videos by lesbians, straight women, transgender women and straight men pointing out how wrong Riley is as do most of the comments on Riley 's own videos.

One of the great tragedies of the transgender advocacy by medical professionals and chalatans is that they have done their best to convince people that taking away the male genitalia reveals the female genitalia hiding beneath. Calling a surgically created cavity a neo vagina does a great disservice to the young people considering surgery.
It is a terrible lie that they do not discover until they have to deal with the surgical wound every day of the rest of their lives.
I suspect this fantasy vs reality is partly the reason for the conflict between the transsexuals and the transgender advocates.

What I can't get over on the Reddit thread linked to up thread is the total inability of some of the posters to appreciate any difference between a "constructed" vagina and a "non-constructed" vagina.And why a lesbian might be attracted to one but not the other.
I'm just and possibly .

Gosh, just tried listening to that Riley video and gave up half way through. Allowing a moment's pause between sentences and paragraphs might have been a good idea. It just comes over as an intolerant rant.

The cotton ceiling debacle was the catalyst for the recognition of the 2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime, as well as one of my favorite maxims: People who refuse to take no for an answer are not safe to be around.

I think it is important to note that the event was open to men and transwomen only.
Basically a pick up artist training seminar.
Funny, not funny, how the PUA don't get the attention and admiration from the corporate media that they received a few years ago in this the #metoo moment.

I really don't see any difference whatsoever between the demands of the proponents of the cotton ceiling and the incels. None at all. Male entitlement to sex across the rainbow spectrum

I have noticed this too. There seems to be a wave of tra/mra/incels demanding access to women's bodies or we are bigoted. Sex as a right, where if males don't get it they can't be blamed if they rape / best / drive cars into women.

The Cotton Ceiling

That second video in UpstartCrow’s post is fascinating - it unwittingly goes right to the nub of the problem.

The transwoman in that video is absolutely correct when she says that people cannot claim that they believe transwomen are women whilst also declaring that they would never have sex with a transwoman (if their sexual preference is for women).

The problem that the TRA movement has is that no-one really believes that transwomen are women. Even their own acolytes. It makes me sad for them.

@AllyMcBeagle

I'm not a lesbian but I feel offended on their behalf watching this!

^^This. I think that 'the cotton ceiling' has peak-transed women more than anything else. The entitlement, the rapey-ness, the refusal to accept other's boundaries, it's conversion therapy. "How dare you not be attracted to me".

I've been reading this board for some time but this is my first comment. What struck me most was "underwear, signifying sex". What an utterly bizarre understanding of underwear. And menacing. Underwear means keeping your genitals clean and not caught in zippers and comfortable. This is how I would guess 99% of us are using our underwear on any given day. To say underwear signifies sex is warped beyond belief. If you really wanted I suggest sexy underwear specifically, then surely silk or lace would be a better term. Cotton underwear is the most boring, plain, non-sexy type. So what on earth is going through the minds of someone who uses this term?

Not even getting started on the obvious consent issues.

Funny timing of this thread as the same topic has just blown up on reddit

www.reddit.com/r/LesbianActually/comments/8h5sw8/my_sexualityorientation_is_towards_biological_sex/

Sardine I have seen it. The presenter is so very happy and charming about it all which somehow makes what they are saying even more shocking.

They explain that sexual attraction is really to self named gender and not to biological sex, and that you are a bad person if you fail to immediately reorganise your mind, body and soul to politically correctly accommodate this. It is deeply homophobic and portrays sexual orientation (of women) as a choice which can (and should) be altered by trying hard enough, and not an inborn thing.

The presenter does generously allow that if you have been raped or abused and have immediate trauma that means you (as a lesbian) currently find sex with a male bodied but female identifying person genuinely traumatic then you may be permitted a short period of excluding sexual partners with penises while you get over it. However you are expected to work on yourself to achieve this ASAP.

It's as shocking in its utter dehumanising of women and rejecting of their right to feelings, boundaries or sexual attraction that excludes men as it is in the bluntness of it's vocabulary. The cotton ceiling ffs. Breaking through unwilling women's underwear to get sex from them. Its as utterly bizarre that this was permitted, unquestioned, in a public place as it is that barbed wire baseball bats designed to batter non compliant women are put on show as an 'art exhibition'.

It boils down - as much of this boils down - to an utter inability to accept the word 'no' .

This is a good piece which really conveys the male entitlement at the heart of the cotton ceiling mentality:

https://tgforum.com/wordpress/the-cotton-ceiling

But, I am getting messages from women. Lesbians do not want us. It is a clear and sobering fact. It is like finding a needle in a haystack if you find a bisexual or lesbian cis woman who accepts transwomen. I know of one friend who found a lesbian and one who is married to a bisexual woman. That is out of ALL of the transpeople I know or have made the acquaintance of. It takes a damn near miracle.
I will press on, however. I am no quitter. I am a rebel. I don’t accept things just because that’s “the way they are.” I will continue the quest for my fair maiden. The Cotton Ceiling must be broken. We are not perverted men seeking to rape lesbians and turn them into slaves to the patriarchy. We — ARE women. We ARE females. We ARE people. We have feelings.

Particularly note how trans identified males can legitimately have preferences but lesbian and bisexual women can't.

"The term cotton ceiling is a reference to the “glass ceiling” that second wave feminist identified in the workforce, wherein women could only advance so high in the workforce but could not break through into positions of power and authority. The cotton represents underwear, signifying sex."

This was actually what peak transed me. Taking the idea of women finding the language to talk about inequality in the workplace and using it to create a rapey metaphor about breaking through women's underwear. With no apparent awareness of how awful it sounds.

'Transincelism' is your new word for today people. I really don't see any difference whatsoever between the demands of the proponents of the cotton ceiling and the incels. None at all. Male entitlement to sex across the rainbow spectrum.