State your views on trans issue/self id issues *TITLE EDITED BY MNHQ

I have no issue whatsoever with the vast majority of trans people, respect their rights to their choice of pronouns, they are absolutely entitled to live their lives as they choose, and deserve to do so in safety. Those rights do not include the right to tell others they must be “cis”.

I believe the tiny yet horrifically powerful trans activism lobby is doing appalling damage to the general public’s understanding of the rest of the trans population, with their violence, misogyny and hate stemming from a MH condition that has far more to do with narcissism than body dysmorphia. Their actions are creating a division where there was none.

Hubris

This is a great thread.

Each technological advance creates a period of change in society. Right now it is the advances in medical feminisation techniques.

Thinking that you don’t need to use the technology to make the change (self ID) when nobody contemplated that before the technology existed is a sign of the technology’s power and maturity.

Women’s rights are hard won and fragile.

@WidowWadman Fantastic to see a range of views here. :)

What is it about transwomen that makes them women, beyond declaring that they are women?

Trans women are women.
Self ID change as proposed doesn't change anything for anyone who doesn't need it to change their own paperwork nor increases any risk, and the opposition to it is frankly baffling.
Nobody is trying to stop anyone from talking about their reproductive systems, as is bizarrely claimed so often, however it's not the only topic relevant in feminism.
My feminism is intersectional and includes trans women.
I'm can see a huge overlap in rhetoric between the regressive conservative Christian right and trans excluding feminism, and don't think it's coincidental.

I'd like to see less segregation rather than more (cubicles hurray!).

I see MumsnetReport is screengrabbing almost everything on here, despite the fact that nobody has said anything transphobic. Feels like being watched by the Stasi.

hubris

Hubris

I am still Spartacus.

I think trans in most forms is a mental illness.

Well cripes knows how long it will last but I did it. Bloody hell.

My sister was a heroin addict. She was abused and ultimately pimped out by her "boyfriend".

At one point, she was locked in a house for 3 weeks, fed drugs and repeatedly raped by whoever paid and some of this was recorded and put on the internet.

She got pregnant as a result of this 3 week period, but refused to acknowledge it. It wasn't until she was in labour that she sought medical help or called family.

She died at 30. Despite her lifestyle, this wasn't from an overdose or organ failure or even male violence. It was "sudden adult death syndrome" basically, they have no idea how she died, I suspect that she just gave up.

The only rehab programme she engaged with was the woman only programme she was on when she died. She could not engage when men were present, the instinct to defer to and shut up around men, learned from years of abuse prevented her from opening up.

She didn't read people as male or female based on hair length or clothing choice, she read male socialization and we all know how a group changes with the addition of a man.

So anyway, women only spaces are vitally important to the women like my sister, they are the hill I am prepared to die on and this informs my view of trans issues.

Dress how you want, live how you want, but have some respect of the abused, prostituted and otherwise vunerable women and stay the fuck out of their spaces.

Be my guest. x

Posie you deserve a new thread on this terrible fascistic pursuit of you. Mind if I start one.

I agree with Red, it is not just the changes that are being hammered through, it is the way it is done. The abuse, the threats, the violence, the persecution for stating facts. It is out there in the open, yet the powers are quiet. Why? The silence is going to make us lose our voices in society and I really believe that.

For the rest of it:
Transwomen will never understand what it is to be a biological women, with all the downsides it entails. They just see the romanticised fun stuff.
Transwomen will always be male and have no place in womens spaces, sports etc. pronouns, I will try out of respect, but not the zie and all that other stuff. Sorry, but my brain is just not wired that way.
GRCs are not necessary anymore, changing your birth certificate is falsifying history. Maybe remove gender/sex from all other documents if people find it difficult to keep stating their biological sex? Of have both?
Children should never ever be given hormones or blockers. If they want to present as the opposite gender then go for it. Toilets, changing rooms are still segregated by sex and children need to be taught to accept someone presenting as different.

No to transgenderism-its a joke-men playing dress up and then believing they are entitled to invade womens spaces that are given protection based on a sex and then trying to ruin lives by hurling accusations of transphobia whenever we try to discuss it in a reasonable way-no way-it is the thin end of a wedge-i will not support it. However i will support those who have gender dyshoria or identify with women but respect that sex is a line that cant be crossed however much we might like it to. Moreover i would want my children to feel free to explore their sexuality and how they present to the world in their respected sexes without feeling the pressure of labelling themselves trans if they are not girly girls or masculine boys. It could be progressive the trans movement but the way i see it now it is harmful to both males and females in reinforcing gender stereotypes as well as being homophobic and women hating. Shame on mumsnet for kowtowing to tras.

Dorade that's basically it

Transwomen are men

Transmen are women

Changing sex is impossible

Intersex people are not transgender

Clothes, make up, toys, hobbies etc are not the preserve of any one sex

Women are oppressed because of their biology

All people deserve the same rights.

I’m torn about self ID.
I think with some adjustment it could in principle could be better than the current system. It could cut down long complicated processes that are humiliating and unnecessary. I think trans people deserve to have the right to dress, be addressed and behave however they feel comfortable and we should respect that. However, I also think people who have male biology should not compete in women’s sport and people who have male biology and therefor male propensity to commit sex crimes, should not be put in women’s prisons or be given the same access to vulnerable women.
I don’t debate on mumsnet because of all the missgendering and the ‘shouting down/mockery’ of people who have a slightly different opinion on the trans debate.

*dysphoria. Autocorrect, I do so hate thee.

I want trans people to live a safe and happy life with full access to society.

I believe they can achieve that without colonising women’s spaces and identities to the point of denying biological facts.

I believe we need third spaces for those who identify as the opposite sex.

I think the definitions of sex and gender need to be written into law.

I think everyone should be free to wear the clothes they want, have the name they want, love and marry who they want, openly and freely and with no discrimination.

I think kids are kids and gender stereotypes in childhood are fuelling ROGD. I believe pushing young children and teens down the trans route is abusive.

I believe there needs to be significant amounts of medical gatekeeping to transition to ensure that it is genuinely the best course of action for a patient with gender dysphasia.

I think the people who are claiming you don’t need to have dysphoria to be trans are chancers.

Posie that is outrageous. The power these people have. The claim they are oppressed in any way is an absolute lie.

Oh golly only read your last post. Reading the other now.

Did you mean people or men, there. I don't get your post Posie.

Also I don't much care if people feel unsafe in sex segregated spaces, there's no evidence that trans identifying males are at risk from men in male spaces.

Should have added, re sex segregated spaces, I support the provision of safe 'gender neutral' spaces, for those who feel unsafe in sex segrgated spaces, but only as a third space, never to replace womens spaces.

Natal sex is the only thing that matters, gender identity does not and can never be more important or defining than biological sex.

I have no more sympathy for transsexuals than anyone else who has work done on their bodies to fix their distress caused by their brain. I do think that hard work and counselling would be better than surgery, in all cases.

Charities that offer support to individuals in adulthood are a good thing, Lobby groups are not. Going into schools and training coercing children and adults into accepting a doublethink ideology is a dangerous thing. No public funding should ever feed into these people's hands.
There is a very sinister lack of unbiased research into all aspects of transgenderism; the causes; the risks; the statistics; impact on women and girls; all of it. I can't think of any other mass movement that has charged forward without anyone in power even raising questions.

I have no idea where all this money is coming from or how these groups have managed to influence those in power.
I think Stonewall are just trying to influence the public to stay relevant, I do not think Ruth Hunt believes men can be women. I'm pretty sure under a lie detector I don't think any women believe this.

Susie Green has appealed and asked for the CPS to review my case. I want to know who she knows in the police force for anyone to investigate me in the first place.

I will not stop exercising my right to free speech and criticise an ideology that I believe abuses children in such a life altering way.