What do your male partners make of GRA

Yep! It was one of those that Peaked me. When you don't know about the ridiculousnesses that are happening they are impossible to imagine. No sane and sensible person would give much of the TRA nonsense any credence.

It is only when you see some of it for yourself that your brain stutters and adjusts its reality settings to accept many illogical happenings.

Think how many people have showed up here saying "well obviously they wouldn't..." only to be told that in fact they already have.

@MyRelationshipIsWeird DP has peaked. I’ve talked a bit about it after reading on here and he is usually a bit like “but surely that wouldn’t actually happen?” and I give him examples of when it already has done

I think this is the biggest problem. Your average wo/man on the Clapham Omnibus has no idea of the extent of what is being proposed and naturally assumes there will be common sense safeguards and rules and exceptions. Getting people to see that it would be all of it, all the time, in all spaces is almost a leap too far because it is so outrageous - and logically assumes we are getting all flustered over something else much minor.

I find that the words and examples tumble out of me all over themselves on the rare occasions I go public with it which makes me sound even more silly, because I just want to make them see the extent.

We argued about it for quite a while where he agreed but thought it was a lot of fuss about nothing. I can't remember what peaked him, but he has since been called a terf, terf-blocked, and quoted by quite a few GC feminists on twitter

He gets defensive when I talk about male violence because NAMALT so it's difficult. He is really gentle and would never hurt anyone, so when I talk about men as a class being a threat to women as a class he gets pissed off and says I shouldn't generalise

Mmm! I don't mean to pile on that, but yes. My DH gets defensive, does the NAMALT thing but then he will add that he knows enough men who would... he will also add that he knows many women who would. He is right, based on where he grew up. And he no longer gets annoyed by the generalisation as he can see that the stats make is essential for women to be wary! And that makes him angry a over again!

Decent man = man who's dismissive of his wife's opinions and who gets angry with her if she tries to talk to him about sexism.

Interesting set of ethics you have there, Poula.

I suspect that Quimby's comment represents that majority male opinion, and that most men won't say anything until the issue impacts them in a way they can't ignore (a daughter forced to share changing rooms with a boy or who loses her spot on a sports team to a boy, for example, or if they have a lesbian daughter if she shares with them the pressure she's under to have sex with trans "lesbians").

My dad thinks it's bollocks too but also thinks it's a tiny number of people who'll eventually get bored and move on to something new.

PoulaFisch

Nightowlagain
Buy your husband a beer. He seems like a decent man...

“He gets defensive when I talk about male violence because NAMALT so it's difficult. He is really gentle and would never hurt anyone, so when I talk about men as a class being a threat to women as a class he gets pissed off and says I shouldn't generalise. “

Decent man, really.

Dh was shocked and baffled

He doesn’t really care, I mean of course he thinks it’s loopy but it doesn’t affect him so he can afford to be complacent. Isn’t that male privilege.

Dp thought I was a bit bonkers at first, but has been interested in what I have to say. He is now completely enraged about how women's rights are being eroded and utterly confused at the ideas being pushed by the TRAs. He just can't understand the thought process behind anyone who says they are a woman is a woman and you may not say anything that challenges that in any way. I thought his head was going to explode when I read him the Facebook thing about the trans women who were angry that the severity of their 'periods' was not being respected. Its like everyone is having to play along in someones game of pretend and he just doesnt get it.

He has been concerned for me at times because he worries I let it get to me too much, but at the same time he can completely see why I am upset.

Complete denial.
Won't discuss it.
Thinks I have got it all wrong.

Nope. DH is still stubbornly clinging on to his Woke mindset. He thinks almost all the TRAs in the public eye are ridiculous, as are their tactics which he thinks are various degrees of horrifying to boot. But he keeps saying "in an ideal world..." & then that of of course certain things wouldn't happen, that TRAs, misogynists, sex predators etc. shouldn't be allowed to block entry to all-female political meetings, or conduct mass reporting campaigns via social media, or get big business involved & try to bully investors into dropping MN, or physically attack grandmothers in public just for attending a meeting.

But he is massively stubborn though. TBH he tends to pick a side & then sink with the ship. It's very annoying. I'm hoping he sees the light. I really expected better of him; he describes himself as a feminist & is the only person in the world who's aware of what my ex put me through.

Of my make friends (straight male so don’t have a male partner) almost everyone of them would be on the same page as the feminist board on mumsnet, in a way that they wouldn’t be on other issues, but I’d say they mostly feel like as they’re not rowing in with the “liberal view” there’s no way they’re going to voice their position in any public or social media way as they don’t want to be subject to the ducking backlash.

I think it’s a reaction to being told that they’re opinion isn’t needed/wanted on social issues as straight white men, and they just can’t see it being worth the hassle of getting labelled as bigots etc

But most everyone I know thinks it’s fucking bonkers, but who wants to attract the minority of loons to your door to try and make you go viral as an example of a transphobic bigot and probably try to get you fired

Sorry, I missed 2rebeccas reply to that Did not mean to speak for you/him either. Its late and I am not thinking properly..

Eh? Aren't those two things mutually incompatible?

Does he not mean it in a...gender is just another word for sex way? A lot of people I know think that gender and sex are actually the same thing, that gender is just a way of saying sex without saying sex. And think what we know as 'gender' is just basically..personality and personal tastes in clothing and such.

thebewilderness absolutely agree

I've been hearing that some of the annual memorials and 'take back the night' vigils are no longer being held. If this is true...[rage]

Clicky link for anyone who hadn't heard about the Montreal massacre:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre

One of the things that causes flames to shoot out my cheeks is the transgender males attempt to appropriate the annual memorial of the women killed at the École Polytechnique massacre and the gun rights advocates demonstrating at the memorial.
"At long last sirs, have you no sense of decency."

He also got quite irate when Eddie Izzard suddenly started calling himself transgender, after previously writing lots of his material about being a transvestite. Just because he likes wearing dresses and makeup doesn't make him want to be a woman, because that's just playing into gender stereotypes. A man can wear dresses and makeup and he's still a bloke - unless he's starting a full transition to live life fully as a FIM, then what makes him any more transgender today, as a bloke who likes dresses and makeup, than he was for the last 20 years. A bloke who wears lipstick is still a bloke!

Bloody hell, I'd not heard about the École Polytechnique massacre before.

Mine thinks it's bullshit. He joined the Women's Equality Party as a founder member, so is quite literally a card carrying feminist (with an actual card!). He's disappointed in their stance about this issue, because it's being 'right on' rather that protecting women and women's rights

To be honest it was DH who made me aware of self ID.
He's a scientist (we both are), so to him XX = woman, XY = male.
I don't know a single man who believes otherwise actually.

"It's all a bit post-truth, isn't it?"