Employment law and pregnant men

I was also genuinely interested in the additional difficulties transmen face in seeking infertility treatment on the NHS. I hear so much about "trans rights are human rights", but have never come across a straight answer to the question of what rights transmen and transwomen do not currently have. I thought perhaps this might be one of them.

Yes there is the medication aspect. But tbh that's just life. I have a friend who has had to make the very hard decision not to have children because of the medications she needs to take to maintain her quality of life and prevent her becoming dangerously mentally unwell. It's heartbreaking for her, as I'm sure it is for anyone who's essential medical treatment means that getting pregnant is harder/riskier/impossible.

Cross sex hormone therapy is obviously going to interfere with fertility. Perhaps this is part of the reason it should only be prescribed to people who are absolutely in possession of the full facts and implications and able to make an informed decision about all the potential effects on their body. Ie, never ever to teenagers.

I'm guessing if people have been taking hormonal medication, they might not be fertile anymore, so need more resources?

As a regular boring woman-and-man couple with infertility, we didn't get much support either. There aren't magic cures out there sadly.

FlyByNightSky has got it perfectly

As above, I cant see how jellyfish and partners infertility differs from any other couples. Even if jelly ids as a man, it is female biology which will need investigating. I also dont understand how somebody rejecting womanhood could even consider bearing a child. Would love to hear about this jelly if you can face it.

I don't understand how "trans fertility" is different to "fertility" tbh.

A trans man trying to conceive with their trans woman partner is just... a straight couple trying to conceive? And should therefore be able to access the same fertility treatment that is available to any infertile couple. I realise NHS fertility treatment is not exactly gold standard or consistent across areas but thats to be expected with the way things are in the NHS now

OK just seen .the ... Y ou want to shit on me and start a fight.... flounce.

Shame, I was actually interested in what jellyfish thought the issues were

** I have multiple fertility issues, have been TTC for a year with my partner who is a trans woman and we're already not elegible for NHS fertility treatment because the criteria didn't think of trans people at all and we are almost purposely left out.

The best thing to do re laws and regulations like this is to ask the people going through it*

Jellyfish this is interesting re health and fertility. Might be worth starting a thread on that topic.

Hi keyboardjellyfish

Both pregnancy and breastfeeding are protected characteristics independently of sex.

So getting a GRC shouldn’t prevent you from being protected.

You mentioned the discrimination you have faced, misogyny I think is a shared problem. In relation to the transgender discrimination - could you explain it and what could be done to improve things?

Hope this isn’t too intrusive - if you’d like.

What concerns me is that it is entirely possible for gender to supercede sex in law which leads to a situation where it is completely bloody obvious which people might be capable of pregnancy because only one sex can do this, but 'all genders' are apparently capable, so when you discriminate against the female sex you aren't in fact committing unlawful discrimination.
You have to acknowledge sex to acknowledge sex discrimination.
'Gender' masks biological reality.
And as we all know, women are discriminated against because they are biologically female. Not because of the pronouns they choose.

I was wondering where the 'you're manipulative cos you're trans' would start so I'm going to leave this thread now. Well done for ballsing it up for anyone else on this thread who would be interested in learning about this.

It didn't. But your second sentence, and flounce, are manipulative as fuck.

So as I understand it discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, menstruation or whatever is still illegal because it discriminates against women even if 1% of men share that characteristic

0% of men share the characteristic of pregnancy or menstruation.

Indirect discrimination does not require 100% correlation between the discriminated feature and the protected characteristic. If I require that my employees are all 6 foot tall, for no good reason, then that is definitely sex discrimination even though Gwendolyn Christie (and Caitlin Jenner) is six foot two. If I require that my employees have naturally fair hair then that is racial discrimination even though some people from every race are albino.

So as I understand it discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, menstruation or whatever is still illegal because it discriminates against women even if 1% of men share that characteristic. And of course as noted above pregnancy is protected in its own right anyway.

@keyboardjellyfish
You wish to present as male yes? So that's your gender presentation?

This is a genuine question: if you see yourself as a man, why do you want to bear children? I am struggling with the concept that if you feel 'male' and want to be gendered/considered/present as male, then why would it be important for you to do the very thing that encapsulates your femaleness. Why not use a surrogate? Because that's what infertile natal women have to do.

I repeat, this is a genuine question. I would like to understand the mindset that has made you feel so unsupported.

down the rabbit hole, that's where. I think its better not to concede to them the definitions in the first place. We need to resist the inclusion of transmen in the biological definition of men, the same way we need to resist the definition of transwomen in the state women.

Absolutely.

Men cant get pregnant anyway, and the less we pretend they can, the better.

By saying trans people are manipulative. Which I didn't say.

You're doubly manipulative for presenting "you're manipulative by lying that I want to shit on infertile people" as thar I want to shit on trans people.

I was wondering where the 'you're manipulative cos you're trans' would start so I'm going to leave this thread now. Well done for ballsing it up for anyone else on this thread who would be interested in learning about this.

I also own a vulva, vagina, and barely working other parts, thanks. I'm trying to make a human, I am aware why our 'shared sex' is important. What I won't abide is people who are not trans refusing to listen because they have very very loose made up opinions based on no stats/facts/etc and trying to act like trans people are the new Gay Horror from the 80's.

I live this. Every single day. I experience misogyny and transphobia from healthcare providers on at least a weekly basis just because I want a baby. I'm not interested in debating my gender. I am interested in talking about trans fertility. Decide which one you're interested in talking about and I'll decide if I'm going to continue this conversation or not.

And it's very manipulative to say that I wanted to "shit on infertile people" so please don't.

But I am of course interested to hear your personal experience. Assuming you'll do others the same courtesy.