Employment law and pregnant men

I must say after quite a few months of lurking on threads like these it becomes obvious very quickly which people have hatred towards trans folks and which people simply want to learn. @Gorgon falls into the first category and I will be ignoring her from now on.

However I welcome any genuine questions of interest from anyone else :)

They would be lying about the cause of the OP's partner's sterility, Elle

Thank you @Elle

No. You will be the mother. You will be the person who supplied the ovum, who grew the baby in your womb, who gave birth. That is LITERALLY the definition of mother

Lol.

Gorgon

Lying means intending to deceive. This couple believe in their preferred genders so they are not lying

Oh @Gorgon! The one who decided that adoptive mothers aren't mothers because they don't give birth! How lovely to hear from you again smile

How lovely to join the list of posters whose words you've either deliberately twisted beyond all recognition, or are unable to understand.

I said absolutely nothing of the kind. You are lying.

I said that if you got pregnant and gave birth to a baby you would be its mother, not its father .

I said absolutely nothing about adoptive mothers. Are you unable to understand or purposely lying?

Yeah I've been warned @Elle. It is probably going to be crap :( But oh my god, so worth it.

Oh I see, so you'd then be able to lie and get more free treatment for self-inflicted problems.

How would you be a same sex couple, I thought you were a man?

Also Keyboard

Not a question as such but an observation from my own pregnancies which might be helpful.

I HATED them, I felt trapped in my body, constantly sick and nauseous for 24 hours a day for 6 months for the 1st and 9 for the 2nd. I detested the fact that I had to be the one to be pregnant so we could have kids. I felt betrayed. My body became alien territory. My breasts went up from a b cup to a J. I can’t imagine how horrible that might have felt if I’d also had gender dysphoria. I’m not saying this to upset you but to prewarn you

Any other questions for people who aren't gonnae have a go? Cos I'm actually enjoying most of this.

Oh @Gorgon! The one who decided that adoptive mothers aren't mothers because they don't give birth! How lovely to hear from you again :)

To answer the less stupid part of your question, a GRC would class us as a same sex couple which would give us the appropriate treatment for our situation.

My god, while the NHS is on its knees, there are people who not only think the NHS should supply them with hormones to make them infertile, but should then pay for fertility treatment afterwards.

Yes jellyfish , I'd love to learn how your partner's decision to deliberately take hormones that are known to cause sterility would be concealed if they had a GRC?

@Simon Of course this would be the ideal way to be treated but unfortunately it is not what's happening :(

keyboard.
Forgive me if I’m being very nïeve about this but but won’t you and your partner be treated like any other couple given that one of you has testes and one a uterus and ovaries? Granted your partner has problems related to having taken hormones but the same could be true of many other couples who have had say, cancer treatment, and been left infertile.

Who gave birth.

Adoptive mothers don't give birth. But they are legally recognised as mother.

Not yet @Elle although we are exploring options whilst continuing to try with a donor at the moment.

Keyboard

Did you take it through the courts?

Any other interesting questions from people who genuinely want to learn?

But what makes it so shite is that my partner, who has battled with dysphoria for a long bloody time is the reason we are not eligible for free fertility treatment. As my partner does not have a GRC yet, she is classed as 'male'. As she has taken hormones, she is classed as sterilising herself on purpose. As some of you may know this is a criteria for free fertility treatment and because of this we are automatically not eligible.

The fact that your partner has deliberately sterilised themselves is the issue. Not whether or not they have a GRC.

All you are suggesting is that by getting a GRC and saying that they are female, you would be able to conceal the fact that their sterility was caused by hormones that they chose to take, that are known to cause infertility.

I believe one day it will be legal here but as it stands she probably won't get the opportunity to do something she badly wants to do as a new mother.

You would be able to breastfeed your baby, as the person with the body which is designed to gestate, bear, and breastfeed babies.

Call yourself whatever you want, but the fact is that you are complaining about multiple aspects of a situation that are entirely caused by you and your partner trying to take on the role, in relation to reproduction, that you cannot do, and in your partner's case, having deliberately sterilised themselves.

I don't care if you are interested in debating with anyone or not. But your post shows just how messed up this whole thing is.

Yes we've raised it and no it was not overturned. We are not the only people experiencing this unfortunately.

Hi Keyboard

Thanks for replying. The problem with your partner having been deemed to have self sterilised for the purposes of fertility treatment is I think indirect discrimination against transgender people. Have you raised this as a concern? I think you have recourse to get that decision overturned.

Ooh and back in the room. [Takes seat and waits for Eresh to accuse tans man of mansplaining. This should be good].

Right. I'm going to give this a go. I'm not interested in having a debate but this is also incredibly dear to my heart.

First I'll touch on the point re me carrying and giving birth as a man.

I know a lot of folks here really don't understand how I can ID as a man whilst wanting this so badly. I don't know how many of you know what it's like to want a baby more than anything in the world and how many of you can identify with struggling with infertility, but this is mumsnet so I'm sure some of you will be able to. There is literally no way to describe how much I want to carry and birth my own child. I know surrogacy can sometimes be an option, but the road is longer and legally trickier. I want to go on hormones one day (and get a hysto and top surgery too) and I figure, I've been born with a womb and a vagina and a vulva, so what's the point in wasting them if I deeply want to be a dad (yes I said dad, shock horror I will be my baby's father and my trans woman partner will be their mother).

So I'm going to use them (if they start working at some point) and then get rid of them. I am not the only trans person doing this- there are many trans men doing the same. My transness is not completely about my body and I am more than happy to embrace my parts as long as they're here. Whilst I don't particularly like them at the moment, there's no point in causing myself ultimate pain by concentrating on how much I deeply hate my body. I've been there, for years, and taught myself to love my body, whilst focusing on both the present (having them, learning to live with them and love them) and the future (at some point getting rid of them). This is mostly for my own sanity, to be honest.

Secondly I'll touch on the issues I talked about re trans fertility.

So I guess the main point is that my trans woman partner is infertile due to many years on hormones. Hormones for trans women don't always do that, but my partner's body decided to kill the sperm pretty quickly. Despite her going off hormones in the hope that the sperm would come back, it didn't work which means using a donor. However as I have multiple infertility issues of my own (not related to transness, just your run-of-the-mill PCOS mixed with some unexplained stuff), it means that the likelihood of us needing a clinic at some point soon is high. Which sucks. But what makes it so shite is that my partner, who has battled with dysphoria for a long bloody time is the reason we are not eligible for free fertility treatment. As my partner does not have a GRC yet, she is classed as 'male'. As she has taken hormones, she is classed as sterilising herself on purpose. As some of you may know this is a criteria for free fertility treatment and because of this we are automatically not eligible.

This is an oversight that the NHS hasn't thought of because they haven't thought of trans women whilst writing up criteras for fertility. This is also a barrier that harms not just our family but many families with trans women out there. It is a system flaw that needs to change. Trans folks deserve more to live in pits of dysphoria forever- we deserve happy lives, healthcare, families, housing and jobs free of discrimination. It is a medical form of discrimination against trans folks when trying to access reproductive care. It probably wasn't on purpose, but as it stands it may be the reason we have to wait longer for our baby because we now have to save for a clinic.

I experience the usual misogyny that I'm sure many people here can relate to re using healthcare at all, including fertility healthcare. It is shit and rampant. But also I experience ongoing transphobia- misgendering, intrusive questions regarding my transness from doctors (questions that have absolutely nothing to do with my PCOS or unexplained infertility stuff), and I was also taken off the list for the gender identity clinic for expressing the desire to carry and birth my baby because apparently I'm not man enough.

Regarding early birth issues, I will have to go down on my baby's BC as mother. I'm not, I'll be the father. Luckily my partner will be able to go down as parent. Another early birth thing: breastfeeding. The drug that helps trans women lactate is currently not legal in the UK but is in Canada. We have the option of my partner self-medding or not breastfeeding, which is crap. I believe one day it will be legal here but as it stands she probably won't get the opportunity to do something she badly wants to do as a new mother.

None of this is particularly new information, it is widespread info within trans communities and reproductive justice is just another battle for us that I wish we didn't have to fight because god, I just want my baby.

So yeah. I think I've covered everything. I'm happy to answer questions but I'm going to stress that I will quite happily ignore any jibes at my partner and I, any shitty 'you're not a man' comments, anything about my reproductive system. I know what I have and I know who I am. I am confident within myself as a trans man and I am not here to debate that.