Why can't you *feel* like a woman?

I feel like a woman every time I am in a meeting room and the clients direct their questions to my male , less qualified sidekick. I have to really work to gain credibility, while the men automatically have it.

That makes me feel like a woman on a regular basis. Not sure any transwoman can have experienced that though.

Seriously, the only times I “feel like a woman” are when I notice things playing out differently for me because I am a woman. You know, when I randomly flooded all over a plane seat, when I was harassed on the tube by a chap who seemed to think I should be grateful for his attentions, when I was overlooked at work in favour of men etc. All of those things are down to biology or to society’s treatment of women, not to my innate womanly feelings.

Lots of psychobabble in your posts.

I know I am a woman because things relating to my biology eg pregnancy, childbirth, smear tests, periods. I suppose that's the closest I get to 'feeling' like a woman

I 'feel' like what other people perceive as a woman when I get stereotyped or patronised. They foist that on me

Yimmini said it better than me

“For me womanhood is biological but defines my identity and mind.”

Well yes, but can you separate feeling like a woman from feeling like you who happens to be a woman?

I can’t.

I feel like a woman because I am one because that’s my biology and that’s how I’ve been raised and treated by society - I can’t identify a distinct feeling of being a woman outside of that. There’s no general womanliness that I can identify that isn’t linked to those that I know I share with a n other woman.

polkadot referring to your 3-point post above:

1. Is still all external stuff, just the memories or reactions to the external stuff, not an internal (uninfluenced) 'feeling' as such. It reminds me of the Rebecca West quote:

1. Seems to be a point about socialisation, realising you have been dealt the 'shit hand' of 'being a woman', and finding solace with others in the same boat. Again, external forces, your reaction to, etc.

1. Is your cumulative reaction to life experiences, the emotions derived from that - but no, there is no 'feeling like a woman' that is the direct result of that (even if there is, it is a reaction, not 'a feeling' as such)

In summary, your points all go in the direction of:

• Stuff happens to me
• Causes emotions
• Causes reactions
• Makes me want to seek out others in same boat
• I have made an identity out of this (identity is not feeling either)

What I took away from that, is that any emotion 'as a woman' is really 'cumulative reactions to how shitty society treats humans born with female reproductive organs'. In summary - I think we all have that, hence feminism.

There's so much word salad on this thread it's set the lettuce spinning - the lettuce is feeling like a woman now

It's a shame you feel they are interchangeable.

That is such an effed up repulsive thing to say to a woman that I have nothing more to say to a person who would say such a thing.

Feeling like a woman is not feeling like an object
Is that what you think? How nice for you.
WE ARE NOT THINGS!
Is one of our battle cries, because after a lifetime of being treated like an object women feel it.

Quite a lot of the time I feel like a tiger, an enormous dinosaur or a very small and hibernating doormouse, but the rest of the time I feel like a human person. I have a fairly flexible identity as far as species goes.

In some of my sexual fantasies I am male, and male-bodied.
But what I actually am, a human female, is dictated by my dna and that cannot be changed.

Happily it doesn't have to define me as I can and do reject a lot of the social and cultural expectations of womanhood in terms of clothing, presentation, following a STEM career and being assertive and contributing equally in business meetings (and no I won't sort out the coffee for everyone), and household responsibilities which are genuinely shared entirely equally.
I generally dislike my body, especially the inconveniently large boobs and the annoying way it bleeds painfully each month.

My lack of "identifying" as a woman hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to the various occasions that I have been subjected to verbal or physical sexual abuse. When an abusive man wants to be abusive it is his perception that decides what you are.

The extent to which I personally embraced womanhood was entirely irrelevant to the dozens of employers to whom I made job applications in my early 30s (happily I wasn't unemployed, just desperately unhappy with my current employment) and as I got to the final two candidates over and over again and then was told that it was really close but in the end they went for the other candidate (a man) every single bloody time. I have no doubt that at least some of these occasions were down to them seeing "woman" and thinking "childbearing age. Babies. Maternity leave". Women are not discriminated against due to their identity or presentation. Just their biology.

Each person can only experience and perceive their own experiences and perceptions by definition. Except in the case of mental illness, which obviously should be treated, any disjointedness between how you feel personally to be and what society and culture expect of your sex should be addressed by changing and challenging sexist societal and cultural expectations. You can't wish yourself into a different pigeonhole in the minds of other people. Work towards building a world without pigeonholes. It is hard and will take generations to achieve but it will be a lot more successful than fantasising that biology doesn't exist.

For me it does exist and it would be a shame if I could only feel like a person.

For others, who have been told they were lesser all their lives, feeling like a person and not an object is a goal to strive for.

Arse finger slip.

For me womanhood is biological but defines my identity and mind.

All our experiences define our identity and minds as individuals. But there are uniquely biological female experiences and experiences driven by gender ideology. It's almost impossible to escape the gender stuff growing up so it's woven into your 'identity,' but in reality it's nothing to do with your biological reality or identity.

Having a child and mcs didn't make me more of a 'woman,' though I'm more able to identify with other women who've had those experiences since I've had them.

For me womanhood is biological but defines my identity and mind.

All our experiences define our identity and minds as individuals. But there are uniquely biological female exp

keef

I was coming on to post a separate post (not sure if I will now or not) but I saw this on twitter and just felt it summarised society's gender issue. There's a lot of wool pulled over our eyes growing up regarding gender. A truly equal world would have no word for gender.

I don't have the time or energy to feel like a woman. I am too busy feeling like a mother, daughter, partner, employee, friend, client, service provider, knackered person, customer to specifically feel like a woman.

I am interested though. How will I know when I am feeling like a woman? Does it involve an all expenses paid spa weekend in a No Mobile Phone zone? Please say yes.

@KeefBurtain

TBW and much love - always and forever. ww

Thanks for that explanation of what it feels like to be a woman polkadotwellies - I appreciate the time it took.

Just out of interest... have you read KeefBurtain's post above? Keef's brief but so painful account of what it actually feels like to be a woman - adult human female - is something only a female human can feel. A human man/male can never know that quintessentially biological female experience and I'm not prepared to pretend they can.

What goes on in someone's head is their own mental health issue.

(Went on a bit of a rant after that but decided not to post so that's all I'm saying for now.)

I always felt like a people.
A person pretty much like every other person.
Things were done to me because I was a girl. So I dissociated.
Adults told me over and over that i was a girl a tomboy girl and that I could not do things because of that.
It was all I could do to get back that feeling of being a person. Being picked at constantly and then the menstruation and pregnancy all brought home to me that I am a woman, but the feeling that accompanied those experiences were not ones of "womanliness" as I have heard women express their pride of identity. My feelings were more along the lines of what fresh hell is this.

KeefBurtain
I'm so sorry. And that's so brutally sad.
But I understand what you're saying - feeling like a woman is such a contested fucking concept?!

Just try actually being an adult human female.

(Most males can't even cope with having a cold....)

for your loss