Letter in The Guardian from Transexuals saying self ID not the answer

But they can change their markers to indicate to others that they wish to be treated socially as the opposite sex

But if someone says "your hair is obviously died - what are you- brown-haired?"

You wouldn't accuse them of hate speech and literal violence. Maybe a bit rude, depending on the setting.

That’s not answering the question. It’s saying the thing ‘changing’ is taking on some superficial physical aspects of the other thing. The superficial appearance does not change the actual classification of the thing.

If I dye my brown hair red, it's still brown hair.

This is an interesting analogy. Because if you needed to describe yourself to someone you'd never met, or give an official witness statement to the police about somebody else, you would say that your/their hair was red. You might mention it was an obvious dye job, or you might not if it looked properly red.

No one can change sex. But they can change their markers to indicate to others that they wish to be treated socially as the opposite sex.

Pratchet that is such a good description.

Also extremely arrogant. In that thread trying to make out that their flesh-crawling, sexual-boundary-absent style of parenting - 'so right on and modern'- is the way to parent.
"Just sit down and talk to them". So deeply indoctrinated in a culture of male sexual entitlement it was as though Hugh Hefner was raised from the dead and started preaching about sex to our daughters.

It gave me chills.

Whittle is awful. Truly sour and selfish, truly ice cold about the safety and bodily dignity of women.

Whittle was involved in drafting the Yogyakarta Principles

www.boell.de/en/2016/07/20/yogyakarta-principles-provide-guidance-and-are-constant-reference-point

The angry bird twitter link (below) is good. Not hard to work out (one of) the people that it's referring to.

I really don't understand what your problem is, lass.

But another message that the letter conveys is that transsexualism is a real and valid thing

Are you saying it isn't? At the risk of repeating myself there has been thread after thread on FWR lamenting that self ID is detrimental to what many posters on here call "old school transexuals" .

Yet when these "old school transexuals " raise their head above the parapet this is what happens.

Well worth a read.

Link to a thread on twitter by one of the signatories:

twitter.com/davessidekick/status/992899730735816704?s=21

Also SW sees no safeguarding issues with GirlGuiding's new trans inclusion policies because guide leaders can carry and give out contraceptives.

That's a whole other sort of dangerous.

SupermatchGame - Sorry why is W dangerous?

In your previous post you quoted the following:

"The Gender Recognition Act enables legal ‘sex changes’ - what legally constitutes male and female has changed. We share Sandland’s (2005) view that as we can now have men with vaginas and women with penises, the act does undermine the binary of two morphologically distinct sexes."

This is why Whittle is dangerous.

Sex is a protected characteristic. We rely on that for our rights. Whittle wants to undermine that. I'm saying no.

The biggest thing I took from that thread is that the gender clusterfuck is not new and it's not accidental. Whittle expressed those views in 2007. Whittle started W's activism with the Beaumont society which was an organisation for cross-dressing men. Whittle was extremely influential in the passing of the GRA. Since at least 1994 there has been a 'trans umbrella' which has included fetishistic cross dressing men.

It does matter. It's not that people can change sex for most purposes except biologically because that's a nonsense. It's that people can be treated as if they were the opposite sex. As a kindness

Re " can someone change sex". To me this is a kind of " it depends " question; my answers , today at least, are;
Can a human change biological sex ? No
Can a person IN EFFECT, for most purposes, "change sex"? Yes, it is possible, a nd quite a few people try hard to do it.
Soi the answer is both yes, and no ( obviously no, in many senses) but the more relevant question might be ; does it really matter all that much, if everyone is civilised about it and behaves considerately to all?

That’s not answering the question. It’s saying the thing ‘changing’ is taking on some superficial physical aspects of the other thing. The superficial appearance does not change the actual classification of the thing.

If I dye my brown hair red, it's still brown hair.

And what PencilsInSpace said.

Well you know, you can't be too careful when the thought police are having a read.

Have the courage of your conviction supermatch. - if you believe humans can change sex, say so, in simple yes or no terms.

Just saved the sw thread before it gets turned into swiss cheese
huh?

Just saved the sw thread before it gets turned into swiss cheese

In many respects yes Barmer. In some, no.

There's only one respect that counts in being female. That's the one where you're of the sex able to produce ova. And not of the sex able to produce sperm.

Nucleate sorry, not nuclear.

You still aren’t answering the question though. Has that person actually changed sex.

If you believe it, the answer is yes.
If you don’t, the answer is no.

It’s a simple question but it cuts to the heart of the debate, because as far as I can see, the rights of half the population are about to be flushed for a position that nobody actually believes is true.

At what point have they changed enough to be the opposite sex? It can’t happen. You’d need every nuclear cell in the body to have a chromosomal change, then rewind the developmental program back to the two cell stage. Or possibly even the second of conception. It can’t happen.

do you believe that humans can change sex? Yes or no?

It’s saying the thing ‘changing’ is taking on some superficial physical aspects of the other thing. The superficial appearance does not change the actual classification of the thing.

I think it's saying that you can change as much as realistically possible with modern surgery and medicine to help an individual bring their body in line with their gender identity. At what point have enough things changed in order for their classification to change in a broader sense? Not just 'what chromosomes do they have'. I think most western societies have answered that really.

Whittle thread here.

I'll have a read, thanks.

I'm not sure who you are asking "can humans change sex?" too.

But I'll answer incase you are addressing everyone.

no humans can not change sex.