Letter in The Guardian from Transexuals saying self ID not the answer

A white person donning blackface is offensive.

A man donning womanface is no different.

Start by calling yourselves men, and then I'll start thinking about respect.

I would like to say "thank you" to the signatories. It took courage to sign that letter and I salute you all.

I don't find it offensive. For many years men have identified as women and women as men. I don't have a problem with people who find their one life is happier identifying as the other sex.
AS LONG AS they don't claim to "be" the other sex, they don't compete against the sex they want to identify as for sex specific lists and sports and they don't insist the other people in that sex use silly prefixes like "cis" and have "privilege" and angrily protest against them

I agree with you TheUterati. Sadly I think people might actually listen to them though. And if we have some ground rules, perhaps we can build a coalition. To work to retain and strengthen our separate and different rights. Third spaces. Respect for women's boundaries. Yes I'm probably naive.

They are still donning womanface. It is still offensive.

Fionne Orlander comes across very well on Twitter to

I agree, Fionne seems lovely.

Thank you to all the signatories of that letter, for saying what many other trans people would like to say but are too scared to. Raising a glass to you all tonight

I appreciate the sentiments behind the praise for this letter, and I appreciate that the signatories to it will come in for a whole load of abuse from the usual quarters.

BUT. The signatories to the letter are still men. That they have gone to greater lengths to change their appearance and presentation does not detract from the fact that they are still men and that as such they are STILL not entitled to women's spaces, women's opportunities, or the language used to refer to women, women's bodies and their experience of those bodies. They. Are. Still. Men.

Further, could you imagine a letter from a group of women referring to male sexual fetishism as a motivating force for men to declare themselves to be women being published in the Graun? Because I can't.

Thank you to all the signatories. Massive respect to you all and heartfelt thanks.

Thank you to all the signatories I hope we can build a coalition.

@Jayceedove having witnesses firsthand the abuse Miranda receives on a daily basis I can understand why you had to be sure before identifying yourself.

Now here's my 2ps worth. I have huge respect for Miranda, fionne and 'oldschool' transsexuals because you made a choice, you didn't make a song and dance about it with demands and pretenses and the such, you followed through on your choice and you didn't impose your presence on women with violence, arrogance and disdain. You've been respected because you respect.

The new generation of transsexuals iike Paris Lee et all have disdain not only for you, but for whom they say they strive to be. Women

Movablefeast, I can see why you say that. And of course it would be inexcusably wrong if it happened.

But I doubt it will get that much reaction, sadly other than where it will hurt, of course.

It is often the way that the most extreme protestation shout loudest and sell the most papers and common sense is a bit too tame for that.

We all knew how this would be received by the wider trans community. Debbie reminded us to think hard before identifying ourselves because of the likely reaction that she has faced already very bravely. That is why there was an option to only ID yourself to the paper (who had to be sure we were all who we said we were) and ask not to have any name attached in print.

For some that was a necessary precaution.

But there are some things where you just have to go with your conscience regardless of consequence.

I did have to talk it over with my family first and they did have some reservations. But they understood why it mattered to me.

That's a very good letter. Clear and thoughtful and respectful. I hope they are listened to.

I'm glad this letter has been written but it will be galling if those with male DNA get taken seriously and treated with careful concern while biological females are shouted down and ignored.

Thank you, all of you, for your courage.

Brave and articulate.

Thank you to all the signatories. With free speech and all that, I shouldn't have to say you are brave to speak out, but you are.

Thank you to all the signatories. I hope the back lash isn't too bad and that once this has settled you can go back to your lives and anonymity (if that is what you want). You are brave and I salute you.

Wise, important and brave words - thank you to the signatories

Thanks, Jaycee and Debbie.

Fantastic letter. So tired of the TRA narrative being that it's feminists v trans when many trans voices are being totally overlooked.
Thank you JayceeDove and every one who signed. Fionne Orlander comes across very well on Twitter to. Adds a lot of weight to the critical of self-ID debate.