I am a transwoman, ask me anything.

You know what, this thread is an exercise in seeing what women do and how we behave. Even those who think you're completely wrong are polite and trying not to be mean. Go on to KIWIfarms and use the same OP. Men will ridicule and dismiss you.... and no one will campaign for the whole site to be taught a lesson.

Hi Ariadne,

I would love to know any of the following please?
What age did you first realise you were the wrong gender?
Are you interested in men or women?
How old are you?
What is your career / job?
Have you come out to your family and if so, how did they take it?
Do you have kids from previous relationships? If so how do they handle it?
What is your look as a woman? Do you dress feminine? Into glamour or are you the jeans and tshirt type?

Ariadne I apologise if I have come across as mean or belligerent, it's not my intention.

When I meant evasive I meant about not answering, as far as I can see, about what you consider ideal acceptance. Because the impression I an many other women have of the TRA movement is that anything less than seeing them as biological women is highly offensive. If you can't answer on behalf of the community (i.e. is this what the majority of trans people want?) then could you answer personally?

It can be hard being a woman and feeling heard in this modern age (for some different reasons then our historic feminist predecessors as well) and the same goes for trans people. So it would be nice if there could be a bit more solidarity, but obviously that's never going to be solidified in the long term if each group is perceived as a threat to the other.

Adriane
I am sorry that your mental health is affected by gender identity issues and I am sorry that it is hard to get appropriate medical treatment.

However, my mental health is affected greatly by having ADHD and chronic pain. The pain clinic has finally seen me after two years of waiting.

Even if I start to view myself as someone without chronic pain, i will never be cured.

In the same way, i believe that self IDing as someone of the opposite biological sex will not cure the deep issues that someone has with gender.

I hope this makes sense and I am sympathetic to your struggles.

Ariadne I am enjoying reading your posts and I feel that you are being sincere (unlike some other posters we've had starting this sort of thread). I hope you will not prove me wrong!

Hopefully you can see that your OP was a bit misguided, and that the posters here will not default to the female socialised behaviour of just being nice about things that are really, existentially important to us.

But please, stay and keep talking. I've expressed on here before that I feel there is a hell of a lot of common ground between these particular two sides in this debate (i.e. gender critical feminists and TRAs, though there are lots of other voices in the wider debate), however the wedge of the things we disagree on is being driven further and further in. And there's a lot of misunderstanding.

I didn't make it clear that I wanted to learn more about the issues women are facing, especially in regards to the TRA.

No, you didn't. And you still haven't.

I am more than happy to bow out.

OPs who are only interested in educating us out of ignorant ways usually say this. They'd rather leave than actually address our issues. Or rather, say they're going to leave and then carry on talking about themselves anyway.

Threads like this are pure mansplaining to try to get us on-board and shut up.

The more of these threads there are the angrier I get.

Seriously Ariadne you need to listen and acknowledge what women ate saying ABOUT THEMSELVES.

This conflict is never going to be resolved for as long as men use the word that refers to US to falsely force us into a contrived and damaging category with THEM.

Women are not what you claim we are. The only thing you have in common with me is two vowels and three consonants.

No one can identify AS something that they objectively are NOT. I reject your claim that you are any kind of adult human female, and I reject your claim that the word for adult human females should be imbued with damaging stereotypes to suit you.

I think the worry for a lot of trans people, is the fact that we are a minority, that we will not get a third space
So you're saying that what TIMs really want is a third space?
Dont really want to be included in the category women but want a third category?

Yeah right🤔

Here's the crux of the issue, a person's subjective belief about who they are has no place influencing our laws. If the subjective beliefs of individuals had any real place in society women wouldn't need feminism.

Well done @AriadneRose, thats brave and open of you.

I support trans rights but sadly think whole debate has been polarised to extremes and common sense and facts get lost (Like
Brexit!?) so instead of looking for solutions about men invading women spaces - which they can do without trans gender certificate - people seem to need to take sides instead of working out best way we can live harmoniously.
That said - I hate being called a cis woman. I’m not. I’m a woman. And it’s amazing how that really annoys me!

They won't accept a third space, read any trans forum. To accept a third space means they can't use our and be validated. Sure there are odd ones who think it's an acceptable solution, the majority don't.

Welcome to the thread.
My only issues with transpeople is that it has been so hard to get women to positions of power (we still only have 20% in the UK) that if we started including transwomen in that or in other statistics it could make things a bit skewed. Secondly I don't think self declaration is the way to do in relation to the law anyway - the current law seems to work pretty well.

i don't often think about trans issues as a feminist but have since the 70s read about transpeople - I used to seek out autobiographies in the library as a teenager and think I have a fairly good understanding of things. I just about never use a public loo or anything like that so have no particular issue over that kind of thing that seems to get people a bit cross.

I have sometimes felt transwomen have tried to stop women speaking and that silencing of women is something a lot of of us have experienced all our lives from men but as long as that doesn't happen and we can say what we like (as politely as men say things) then it's all good.

What I never like is censorship. All views should be open to debate. Some people seem to go on too much about things being phobic this that and the other.

I'm with your therapist to be honest. How do you know that what you feel is the condition of being a woman? Why do you label your dysphoria as that? Given no woman on these boards can sufficiently articulate what it "feels like to be a woman" how can you honestly say what you are feeling is the condition of being a cat? an alien? a gender non-conforming man?

I understand why you may be uncomfortable with being a man in a patriarchal society, frankly being a woman is no bed of roses, but why do you feel the need to describe your discomfort as "being a woman"? And do you really think that hormones and surgery will make you feel any better? What if you go through all those drastic changes to your body and wake up one day and realise that you still feel uncomfortable about yourself and it wasn't the state of your body that was at fault after all?

And one last question. Can you understand that saying you "feel like a woman" is perceived as deeply offensive to women who have fought for millennia to be seen as fully human in the first place? We don't feel like women, we feel like humans. To suggest there is a special womanly feeling deprives us of our essential humanity.

If TRA’s would campaign for third spaces there would be no ‘TERF’s.

I can’t speak for all women but you would not be losing the support of old, lefty leaning women like me.

I would support you to stand against the threat of male violence against trans.

If you want help with a national campaign for provision of proper third spaces Ariadne (and proper designated, created spaces, not hurriedly re labelled disabled access toilets) you are absolutely in the right place. I'll gladly support that.

soup- I agree.

It's the "why" I don't get.

Transgender people are simply reinforcing the whole gender disparity structure that seems to ill serve them.

And yes, as pp have said - go and talk to men about their problems with gender. Feminists have identified and fought the issue for decades and received nothing but abuse for it. It's men that don't understand, not women.

Actually I think you are doing a good job Ariadne. I am sceptical of the trans agenda - extremely so. I also don't think you are a woman but I don't think you do either?

Or, better still, just read the forum. It's all here.....

@AriadneRose Firstly thank you so much for giving your time to come and talk to us calmly and openly.

I agree that more calm and open channels of communication on this debate are needed. I think that everyone on here has been welcoming and respeectful regardless of their opinions and stances and I hope that is how you are feeling about this too.

For me, the difficulty in understanding Transgender people lies in the 'why'.

I am gender critical, I believe that EVERYONE regardless of sex, sexuality, race etc. should be free to live their lives how they want in the sense of choosing a name and form of address which they prefer, being able to physically appear as they want to (hair/make-up/clothing) being able to sound effeminate or masculine, and be able to work in whatsoever career they should wish.

So if you want to dress/walk/talk/speak in an effeminate manner, go by Miss/Mrs/Ms Tallulah Girly-girl, be referred to as She/her then that is fine.

However, I do not think that makes you a 'woman'. Being a woman is based on female biology. And more to the point if you are free to do all of those things like I said then WHY do you feel the need to appropriate the word 'woman'? How does the word itself change anything.

I do also recognise that there is an aspect of body dismorphia and in those cases I accept that someone may undergo the extensive surgery to 'correct' the body they were born with. Should they have fully undergone this I would accept them being defined as a 'woman' but not as 'female' as the connotations of female to me are deeper biologically and requires XX chromosomes.

Just to add though, I do and would actively and passionately support the right of everyone to live with gender freedom. free from discrimination, violence and prejudice. because Gender to me is just a social construct and thus should be erased and a big happy free for all. Sex on the otherhand is biological.

sorry for rambling.

I didn't make it clear that I wanted to learn more about the issues women are facing, especially in regards to the TRA

So, the thread you start is:

What do you need me to do?

The rewards of masculinity are very unequally distributed, the alphas get all the glory and then there's a long tail of bog standard blokes who feel like they don't amount to much
One solution to this dissatisfaction with your status in the life could be too decide that you're a woman in the hopes that within that group you would be further up the pecking order

I am not suggesting that this is a conscious thought out process more that it's an unconscious push

I know. I'll still hope. At least Ariadne isn't going on in page-long paragraphs and uses language that mostly makes sense.

Who is it who is doing all this harassing and beating? I'm guessing other men? You should be going down your local working men's club and educating them, not Mumsnet

Mmm, can I suggest you don't do this without taking a larger older brother or friend with you, Ariadne?