I am a transwoman, ask me anything.

I can't help but feel that we've torn this thread apart ourselves by allowing Schrodinger to derail it.

And by all laying it on rather than just ignoring her.

Hatred and bile you you are the only one name calling.

The hatred and bile only ever comes from those banging on about hatred and bile.

Robust exchanges of views are not hatred and bile.

In years to come kids will look back on the kinds of attitudes that prevailed here today like children now must look back at racists in the days of the civil-rights-era

But racism is wrong because there is no biological difference between having one shade of skin over another.

This is unlike being male or female where there is a biological difference between. Only an idiot would ignore that biological difference just as only an idiot would discriminate on skin shades.

The two (race and sex) are polar opposites - race has no binary difference whereas sex does.

Schrodinger.
Hatred and bile you you are the only one name calling.

As mentioned up thread why is there a name for women who think that people with penises are men but not a name for men who feel this way?

Also, spend their time worrying about more important things, like how not to be beaten to a pulp, raped or killed, so like all women ever in all of history in every single nation on earth then.

Very interesting thread but I must have missed the hatred, bile, vitriol part. Where was it ShrodingersCat?

Misogynists always know what we mean regardless of what we say and they expect us to know what they mean regardless of what they say. Bizarre I know but you see it everywhere.

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.

Very interesting thread but I must have missed the hatred, bile, vitriol part. Where was it ShrodingersCat?

@NotTerfNorCis yeah I mean like I said we will never know. It was just a pondering.

I do think that sometimes we (as a collective) could be more sensitive towards feelings without changing our stance on whether feelings actually define sex.

I wonder if we were to wake up in a male body if we'd suddenly recognise a feeling of feeling like a woman?

I've wondered that too. But of course we have a lifetime of growing used to our bodies and being socialised as female. If I suddenly turned into a man I'd probably seem timid and unassertive, not very 'manly'. If I'd been born and brought up male though, with the same brain but a different mix of hormones? I don't think I'd notice a problem.

I can imagine an issue if there's a switch in the brain that tells you whether to expect a penis or vagina on your body. We do have a 'body map' (the sensory homunculus). Whether that is what's going on with trans people though, I don't know. If it is, and it genuinely affects up to 1% of the population, why hasn't this been noted in other cultures? Yes there is a 'third sex' in some cultures, but that's not the same as trans - it's not the concept that someone with a male body actually is a woman. Third sex people tend to be gay, eunuchs or intersex.

@schrodingerstwat oh my gcses were so long ago Ive forgotten my results.

Well my history degree was a 5 year degree with 4 of those specalised in Italian history but I'm sure that's not important to you.

Oh my bad. You aren't a mtf or a mra but misogyny drips of every word you post.

Bless

I've been thinking about this.

As women we have only ever BEEN women. So would we even notice a feeling that has always been there? As a PP said we just are women in the same way as we just are human. But there have been times when people have felt dehumanised, so I wonder if we were to wake up in a make body if we'd suddenly recognise a feeling of feeling like a woman?

It's impossible for any human to truly know the way another human feels

Perhaps the tragedy in all this is that no-one will ever experience both sides in order to do a full comparison.

In doesn't change my view on what defines womanhood but it is a point on which perhaps more sympathy could be shown.

On a separate note @schrodingerstwat i know you think you are helping and supporting the trans rights movement but you have effectively shut down one of the ONLY truly calm, honest, open and respectful discussions on this I have ever seen so actually I believe you are doing more harm than good.

“, I pm'd the OP and recommended she come off this thread and go and do something nice, involving self-care, or time spent with rational, well-informed people who don't misgender her rather than spend time on here where she is treated despicably by a load of vitriolic TERFS.”

I would find that rather threatening in Ariadne’s position.

Anyway, back to the discussion. I am also struck by the idea that feeling “like a woman” is what people might call feeling unlike unpleasant men.
Refugees from toxic masculinity and all that. But not gay, so not having that alternative available.

Hi schrodingerstwat. I'm interested in your point of view, though you may be off joining the real world for a bit, so not sure if you've time to respond.

I sat on the fence for a couple of years, and was a champion of trans identities for a long time, in terms of making sure their voice was heard in my organisation in various ways.

The 'echo chamber' here, where some of the most steadfast and patient women's rights voices set out their concerns about the eradication of rights for women and girls, was just that. An echo chamber. For a long time. Many of us ignored them. (I'm guilty of that too)

I'm interested in your point of view that Mumnset is somehow becoming a 'last resort' echo chamber., I've witnessed a growing groundswell of support for 'the wrong side' as you put it over the last few months, which is spilling out of this forum, joining with others (many of whom were also shouting into a void for a long while) on social media and in real life.

What I'm witnessing right now is a falling away of the walls of that echo chamber. More and more people are realising the concerns. Coming onto FWR to try to understand the issue, and then realising it and doing something about it.

I'm also observing, at the same time, a concerted and furious attack on those concerns.

If this forum is an echo chamber, and all the concerns on it are on the wrong side of history - why the anger, why the attacks, why the venom directed at women? Why not just ignore it? As you say, it's just a echo chamber on the wrong side of history?

spend their time worrying about more important things, like how not to be beaten to a pulp, raped or killed

Is it women doing this to them?

8 transwomen killed in the last decade. Obviously 8 too many. 2 women a week killed in DV incidents. So killed because female.

Statistically it’s safer to be a transwoman.

If transwomen are being raped and beaten its by men - so why is the ire directed at women?

Perhaps if being trans is so dangerous then we shouldn't spread the social contagion.

I have every sympathy for people who have a mental illness. Mental illness is tough. What we don't want to do is normalise fetishes or encourage confused young people towards unnecessary surgery.

I am glad that males are finally considering thinking about doing something about the fact that the only people they kill more often than women are other males.
Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known. So maybe they will finally set aside the 10th rule of misogyny and get to work on harm reduction.

@schrodingerstwat

If you are accusing posters of tuneless, despicable, unbelievable, moronic vitriol it's usually good form to provide examples (since you say this is coming from the majority of MN's millions of users there must be a wealth to choose from, shouldn't take 5 mins). Thanks so much.

Wow - Italian History?? You must be so clever! Dear God, are you about to give me your GCSE results now @Amalfimamma? I'm out of here, but thanks for helping me do it on a smile ! I don't know why you mention ladybrain. I'm not a man or a transwoman. Just a cis-woman who thinks, like many other cis-women out there, that views like yours are a disgrace to the feminist cause.

Unfortunately, this is becoming a pretty tuneless echo-chamber. 12 million unique users or 12, but the transwomen who are thankfully able to self-identify and, that taken care of, spend their time worrying about more important things, like how not to be beaten to a pulp, raped or killed likely won't need to hear this site's majority views echoing in their heads.

A whole load of morons but nothing to do with Oxy....

From you, that's a compliment

Such a shame you helped stop the conversation, I was really enjoying it and felt thoroughly educated

@schrodingerstwat

No just living in italy I know more about mussolini and his speeches (I studied Italian history extensively imagine that with Lady brain).

But if you'd rather I compare you with hilter I'm sure I could comply

t. Once I remember that all I need to do is switch off this particular site and rejoin the real world where the majority views expressed

Aye right. Is MN 12 million unique users or 22? I think it’s 12. Tres niche.

@Amalfimamma are you trying to avoid Godwin's Law by going for Mussolini?!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

In years to come kids will look back on the kinds of attitudes that prevailed here today like children now must look back at racists in the days of the civil-rights-era

Attitudes from people who push surgery on gender non-confirming kids, you mean.

Could well be that in fifty years, sex change surgery will look as barbaric as lobotomies. We shouldn't need surgery to treat mental health issues.