Are you inadvertently being transphobic? Find out here

Ah thank you

ReluctantCamper it’s the exasperation starting to show through!

trans women face challenges natal women will not, and natal women face issues that transwomen will not.

Absolutely there are some differences. But surely the question is how big are those differences? When, where and why do they matter? By how much do they matter and to whom?

If you're in a toilet with separate cubicles why does it matter?
If you're physically vulnerable to men because your hormone/ muscle biology makes you vulnerable why does the chromosomal difference matter?
If you have a vagina, surgically constructed or otherwise you are still vulnerable to rape, in a way that a man isn't so why does the difference matter?
If you have a prostate then you may need to get checked for prostate cancer, so yes then it matters.

Does that really not sound reasonable?

Does deliberate transphobia make sense?

I am trying to think of an analogy with homophobia..

So I am imagining someone who feels really cool, at ease and comfortable with gay men and lesbian women, hanging out, chilling, etc.

Then they choose to be 'deliberately' homophobic.

So how would that work? Would they regularly strap a tens machine on and set it on high, while they watch episodes of OITNB and Drag Race until the association with discomfort becomes so strong they start to feel dread and fear at the very thought of homosexuality?

Is that how you deliberately become phobic?

Well, having read some of this thread. I've learned I must be transphobic. Who knew?!

I'll have to let DS trans-man friend know the bad news next time they come round for tea 🙄

Under Birds Eye ha ha love it. I am so fed up with the paranoid tra lens complaining that everything under the sun which doesnt centre them is transphobic.

I meant 'perspective' - side sounds rude. Apologies.

Truscum
Thanks for being here and giving us your side of things.

That made me laugh Truscum please do it again in the ladies changing room

Truscum you seem to have come out of your shell recently. I'm very much enjoying your new, louder voice

Yes, I’m fucking terrified of myself.

Boo!

(Startles in the mirror)

The actual definition of transphobia is to have an irrational fear of trans people which a lot of people on Mumsnet appear to have.

Discussing miscarriage is transexclusionary. Actually saw this being said to a lady on twitter talking about the physical trauma she experienced while losing her child

That’s horrendous My sister had quite a hard time and multiple miscarriages when she was trying for DN. How ridiculous is the idea that instead of sympathising and trying to help where I could, that I would shriek at how unfair it was of her to talk about her biology with me.

Fucking loony.

Trying to insist that transitioned women are referred to as male and man when the law and medical profession advises differently is also just as ridiculous

In that i disagree. Woman has a biological meaning. The current law is badly worded and sets law against observable fact. Medicine and science does not say that a transitioned person becomes the opposite sex. In fact it’s dangerous in treatment terms to do so - did you see the thread the other day about medics treating a trans man in late stage kidney failure using Male eGFR values? He is now in stage four (ie terminal) kidney failure.
What we need, in my opinion, is language that codifies the rights and needs of trans women (and men, although oddly no one seems to push that as much...) without co-opting that of women. Our needs overlap at points, but trans women face challenges natal women will not, and natal women face issues that transwomen will not.

We need the law and society to acknowledge this, to create a framework that protects all groups, without removing rights, protections and safeguarding structures for women, girls and children.

We can put men on the moon - we must be able to do this.

My view is that transpeople have rights. And so do women. The extreme TRA lobby are damaging to transpeople - and they are a grave threat to women and children.

The question is how do we legislate to protect everyone, while maintaining existing rights and protections? and its very difficult to have that conversation because the TRA lobby do not want to have it.

Tthe medical profession does notadvise that transwomen referred to as female SupermatchGame.

I do believe we've had this conversation before and established that while some psychiatrists may advocate referring to people with gender dysphoria by the pronouns of the sex they would like to emulate, if a transwoman turns up at A&E and insists they are biologically female they will be met with this look by busy medical professionals.

By the way, stop saying the ‘medical profession’ advises that men with a GRC are actually women. They don’t.

Phychiatrists have said that in the past, not doctors, surgeons, cardiologists etc.

I still have a prostrate, and a history of prostrate/bowel cancer in the family.

If a doctor treated me ‘as a woman’ I may very well die.

Trying to insist that transitioned women are referred to as male and man when the law and medical profession advises differently is also just as ridiculous

Supernatural I completely agree with you Obviously a woman who has transitioned is still in reality a woman, and it would be pretty ridiculous to believe they are actually a man, given that it is not possible to change sex.

I think it's increasingly transphobic to be trans from the looks of it Truscum.

Blessed be the fruit shoot
Under Bird's Eye
May The Wine Open

Had to repost. So funny

Discussing miscarriage is transexclusionary. Actually saw this being said to a lady on twitter talking about the physical trauma she experienced while losing her child.
That sucked

Whoops.

Turns out I am actually transphobic as hell.

What about this? I am a TIM (I think that’s the word we’ve settled on) and my partner man.

I believe this makes us a gay couple, not a straight one. If I were heterosexually inclined I would not refer to myself as a ‘lesbian’ because, by definition, a lesbian would not be physically attracted to my biological male body, no matter what surgery I have had done.

That men with a fully functioning penis are insisting they are lesbians baffles me.

Whatever would the Feminists do if we did not have SmG to remind us it is the LAW every twenty minuter. I just can't think how we could get on.

What a minefield! Cheers for this OP, much appreciated.

As I said above, there are places where the needs of transwomen and women overlap, and those where they are different. We should, in an ideal world, be working together in those overlapping areas. Male violence, safety, for example.

The reason we aren’t is that a section of the Tra lobby is wanting to push their wants at the expense of the rightsvof women and girls. Not to preserve our rights and add theirs, to actually diminish ours.

That’s why people are concerned and angry. And it doesn’t benefit us, it doesn’t benefit transwomen who want to just get on with life, but it sure as hell benefits men who want safeguarding provision weakened and women’s legal right to safety weakened.

It is ridiculous Bowl and people can see that. Trying to insist that transitioned women are referred to as male and man when the law and medical profession advises differently is also just as ridiculous.