Are you scared?

I'm not scared. It's just more of the same but played out in the open. Same for many other issues as well.

I'm angry.
But I'm also optimistic (rare for me)

At the moment TRAs think they have the upper hand. They think they are winning. Actually I don't think they are. Yes, self ID was raised by the Tories as a possibility. I think they have now realised it was a mistake.

I think there are far more MPs with concerns about self ID than the TRAs think. I don't think it'll ever become law. We have to keep fighting it.

I know at least 6 MPs personally who would vote against self ID and think it's a crazy idea. They all support current legislation, and do not want to reduce rights for trans people.

But they would not vote to change the law to self ID. At least 1 would resign their ministerial position over it.

I keep saying it- write to your MP. Tell them why you are worried. Tell them why you are scared.

Write to penny mordant (minister for women & equalities). Search for the threads on here with advice & tips of what to say.

Also, I haven't watched the Handmaid's Tale, so that probably keeps my imagination at a normal level.

There is nothing in The Handmaid's Tale that hasn't actually happened in the real world. Atwood made a point of this.

Perhaps avoiding that might keep your imagination at a normal level. How do you feel about the changes to women's rights in Iran as the result of a belief system. Are they too imaginative too?

I'm scared for my daughters. Scared of where a porn-addled, image obsessed society where they're not even allowed to be female or women without that being co-opted by men is going to lead them. Not so much scared for myself - the cloak of invisibility being fat, frumpy and middle-aged protects me a lot.

I am scared for myself, but I am furious for my daughters.

I am furious this is not more widely discussed, and that any attempt at discussion by women about women's rights, women's bodies, women's fucking words, is ambushed, attacked and denounced as bigotry.

@AngryAttackKittens

And notice how what you just said is the most taboo thing of all to say, womanfor. Because once that piece of the puzzle clicks into place everything else makes sense and you realize that compromise is pointless so you may as well stand your ground and push back.

Yep it does feel taboo as well - I often feel alone with this huge weight of insight and so pleased there are other women with it too - who can hear me and confirm - as you just did - it's so important

Also, I haven't watched the Handmaid's Tale, so that probably keeps my imagination at a normal level.

I'm not scared at all. I haven't seen anything going on in real life and I don't spend much time online, so whatever is going on virtually is irrelevant to my life. There have always been predatory men, there always will be.

Not scared so much as angry at these pathetic men who are inadequate in so many ways and the pathetic politicians who are too spineless to stand up to their aggression. I'm not scared because perhaps naively I don't see these people as having the strength and intelligence as women fighting this. I believe sense and truth will prevail in the end. And I think men will take our side on this..:to paraphrase Dworkkn, I believe in men's humanity, despite the evidence to the contrary.

Yes I am. And I look at how women live in other parts of the world, and believe that some men would like to see that situation here for themselves.

I believe this has been going on since the 1990's, and a deliberate concerted effort has been made by the Men's Rights movement to take over womens spaces and services, and teach young women their place under the guise of 'equality'.
Men's activists have taken over Women's studies in Universities and co-opted them into 'gender studies'.
Men are re framing what 'feminism' and 'equality' mean in theory and practice.
We are facing a supremacy movement.

It feels like the start of The Handmaid's Tale when women's rights were quietly being eroded

This - so yes I feel scared but I alternate between that and being absolutely, incandescently furious.

Bowlofbabelfish - I don't think you're wrong. It all does feel apocalyptic, doesn't it? Perhaps this is what the shift from Western to Chinese domination looks like? We're between eras?

I’ll also add that the source of new academics and dissenters, our universities, are being neutered too.

No platforming is obscene- how will this generation learn to think critically, with no debate? They will be vulnerable to extremism, the very opposite of what they hope to achieve.
You take out the fact-bearers - the academics, the scientists, the technocrats and the intellectuals. With mockery, no platforming, accusations of x o phobia.
Then you numb everyone else with consumer goods and media. Then yes, as woman says you asset strip, reduce people to a feudal servitude and live off he fat.

The problem is that that kind of inequality triggers social collapse - there’s a level which societies don’t survive at. Black swan events like brexit and trump do not bode well for us.

You may think I’m doom mongering but I think society is head in a very dark direction and I’ve thought this for a few years now. Increasing extremism, inequality, population growth, wage depression, austerity - it’s a toxic mix.
All we need is a few small pushes and a group to ‘other’ and there will be armed conflict in Europe proper within ten years.

Terrified here too.

I have daughters. Older teens now, and outwardly bright capable young women with lots of empathy and social conscience. Except I see them as the children in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, being lured into a cage. 'Ice creams... lollipops... virtue cookies and total erasure...'

The atmosphere in which they exist is rainbow and sparkles and unicorns, masking an utter toxicity to women. They can't see what's happening, and they trust authority. We live in a democracy, right? What could possibly go wrong?

I have four young daughters. The oldest is 11 and is at the point where I can't shield her from everything anymore. I'm sick to my stomach terrified for all my girls

I also have another thing I think contributes.

There was a shift in the media a while back with 24 hour news. It meant that content was more important than facts - any errors just got a quick errata that no one noticed at some point in the flow.
Then it kind of mutated to news not just not being fact checked but anyone writing anything in the web. So now opinions are edging out facts.
And then slowly, the opinion based stuff takes over. Trump and fake news - casting doubt in the few remaining outlets that do actually check facts.

So what you end up with is this odd climate of gullibility plus paranoia - and you see this everywhere - antivaxx, anti science, chemtrails. All these opinions are now put on a platform and seen as just as valid as real opinions with real facts behind them. You even see it in the proper media now - the BBC will have to have ‘a balancing voice’ but that can be a total fringe loon, not just ‘prof x who disagrees with prof y.’

And in a climate where science is denied, and ridiculed, where facts are secondary to opinions and feelings, you get the growth of extremism.

And I absolutely agree with posters above - having someone like trump who openly admits to assaulting women in power is a powerful message. It normalises everything. Add porn on tap into the mix and there’s this violent outpouring of misogyny.

Am I scared? Yup. But I’m also aware and angry.

Jean, you are doing a great job. I admire you greatly, as I do all the other women who are putting themselves in the firing line for this.

I'm not scared.

But I am motivated by all the aggression we are facing.

I have sons and like a previous poster this is for them too.

*I don't want them to believe that if they want to be sensitive or kind they have to change their beautiful male bodies and call themselves women

I don't want them to grow up so porn soaked that they don't understand that half of the human race are people, can't have a meaningful relationship with the mothers of their children if they have them*

So I am here standing for all women and girls and men and boys too. I thought our generation was OK - my relationship with my brother and my husband and male friends is good and equal. I'm not sure what happened to this new generation? It's all very odd.

Im.terrified for my dds more than anything. Dd1(11) in particular has already been on the receiving end of the boys will be boys crap ajd is starting to receive the "messages"loud and clear I'm trying so hard to drum into her that it's not ok and she shouldn't accept ir. But the level of acceptance amongst her amd her friends, of behaviour is set to become very upsetting over the next few years :(

She is also very sporty and I worry her chance to develope her skills and love of sport will be taken away with this crap.

I don't know how I will protect them both.

Speak out and don't beat about the bush. Get angry, permanently. You'll care a lot less about offending these turds and their misguided handmaidens.

I agree plus I don't think Brexit / Trump is helping either - predators will go for wounded, vulnerable prey.

Would we even have Brexit and Trump without the financial crash?

When the centre assumptions collapse - in our case, mixed market/capitalism is the best system, growth is necessary and will always happen, cycles are predictable, etc etc - there is no stable consensus for the moderate left and right to orbit around and so extremists flourish.

We have all sorts of institutional failure going on at the moment from the NHS to the Home Office, to DWP, to the police, to the courts.

Of course narcissistic extremists can find platforms. If you're in the middle of widespread institutional failure, who is going to stop them?

Angry. Calm. Full of resolve to not give up. Renewed in my commitment to women and girls.

In fact, thanks for providing the moment of clarity Shon et al!

I'm terrified. I've had a breakdown over this. And that makes me feel pathetic, breaking down instead of fighting.

Absolutely, I’m not in the UK so Mumsnet has been very enlightening on this topic and I wonder when the movement will come to my country (on a broader scale, I’m sure it’s already here in a small sense) and it makes me really think about the way I’ll be raising my daughter and son. It’s a scary thought what the future holds when there’s so much vitriol out there against women.

@SonicVersusGynaephobia

I think women are actually being simultaneously attacked on EVERY front at the moment.

All in the name of equality. And what reasonable person would disagree with equality, eh?

Women need to stop being reasonable.

And notice how what you just said is the most taboo thing of all to say, womanfor. Because once that piece of the puzzle clicks into place everything else makes sense and you realize that compromise is pointless so you may as well stand your ground and push back.