Are you scared?

I've had a number of conversations and all (both sexes) have voiced their surprise and concerns, whilst also resolutely wanting to ensure that people who are transgender have full protection from the bigotry that does exist. Most have no idea how far forward things have already moved.

I have had my first conversations with people about this in the last couple of weeks. I'm feeling braver. Everyone I've spoken too has voiced their surprise and concern

Another woman who is frightened and horrified at how easy it is for men to appropriate womanhood. To reduce us to their offensive stereotypes and to create a culture of total control (don't mention your biology as it offends us)

I'm not frightened so much as ANGRY.

I've written about it here - under various names - I have to keep name-changing because of this - that I was doxxed and my use of TWitter as a gender-critical feminist used to make a complaint to my employer which included the demand that if I "stood by my views" I should be sacked.

So I'm angry & frightened. I can't afford to lose my job.

And you know what? It's turning me against normal ordinary transwomen who just want to get on with their lives.

I work with someone who's what we might go back to calling transexual. She's not a woman as I or any other borm woman is - but she's not a man.

Why do transwomen want pretend that they're women? They're not women, they're transwomen.

But - radical feminist that I am (since I was about 12), - I really don't want to say that transwomen are men - they're transwomen, not men or women. Maybe we nee a third category?

Yes it is scary. When change of gender isn't legally recognised until a GRC is obtained but people in positions of power are acting as if self-ID is already law and organisations act on it also. When people with large followings retweet inflammatory claims without checking the story first, further whipping up hate and not caring about the consequences. When speech is shut down, people are threatened and their employment/membership is affected. I hope more people become aware before the law is changed.

The wider context is being discussed. Having felt very scared/ bloody terrified a couple of months ago, I have some hope now but there is a great deal to understand and unpick.

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/10/the-gender-recognition-act-is-controversial-can-a-path-to-common-ground-be-found

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sam-gyimah-crackdown-on-students-silencing-free-speech-x28jx85fc

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/29/violent-misogyny-not-confined-to-internet-incels

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old?amp&__twitter_impression=true

SMG: No that's not what I said. I said There are many women who accept trans women as women

yeah, what Prachet said. But I would like to add - even the women going on with the delusion, and getting smaller and smaller in number. More women are waking up to being GC.

A year or two ago, on a facebook group, I had one woman really hammering me on a thread, with all the usual T rhetoric. About four months later, she sent a message APOLOGISING.

SMG, your numbers are shrinking. GC numbers are rising. The tide has turned. As as many of your number used to say something like 'you won't be on the right side of history' - I beg to differ. The shift has started, and only SMG and a handful of others will be left standing supporting these males.

Another woman who is frightened and horrified at how easy it is for men to appropriate womanhood. To reduce us to their offensive stereotypes and to create a culture of total control (don't mention your biology as it offends us).

Like everyone else I despair at the silence of politicians. I am heartened by the words and actions of the many brave women that I see trying to tackle an oppressive and intolerant movement with insight, knowledge and wit.

I doubt the average transitioned woman with breasts, (surgically constructed) vagina and female hormones circulating would identify as any type of man.

And yet those things don’t make you female. So they are a man, with artificially enhanced breasts, artificial (not female by the way, just a pattern that attempts to mimic) and an artificially created approximation of a vagina. Which isn’t really like one at all.

My friend has just had a double mastectomy, severe hormone treatment and a full hysterectomy for two types of BC diagnosed concurrently.

And yet she still identifies as a woman. She’s finding the effects of the surgery hard but to say that she’s now a man because her hormones are awry, she’s got no boobs or female reproductive organs is grossly insulting to her. She’s a woman. Always been a woman, always will be a woman.

MY craw

Pratchet

Women who see TW as women?
There are women who pretend lol. They aren't treating TW as women, they're EXACTLY treating them as men. Prioritising them, listening to them instead of other women, trying to 'make it all better', trying to keep them happy, trying not to upset them no matter how high the price. Basic psychology (or simple experience of human nature) is your friend here

That articulates it so well

That's exactly what led me here a few years ago but I couldn't put my finger on my discomfort.

And when CJ came out with that Vogue cover and all- the fawning; the sense that they were in fact a woman more worthy of respect and adoration just stuck in yy craw

Women who see TW as women?
There are women who pretend lol. They aren't treating TW as women, they're EXACTLY treating them as men. Prioritising them, listening to them instead of other women, trying to 'make it all better', trying to keep them happy, trying not to upset them no matter how high the price. Basic psychology (or simple experience of human nature) is your friend here.

Yes I'm scared - more than ever now I have a daughter. I am scared and feel the Government had utterly betrayed us all. Labour are no better either.

Bloodmagic - I wonder if Rumspringa in some Amish and Mennonite communities serves a similar function, but getting the genes out into the wider population.

Yes. Terrified. But that makes me angry too. Maybe angry enough to 'out' my terf ass publicly. But that's also terrifying!

Because you've tipped your hand too many times already, SuperMatch. It's a bit late to pretend not to be openly hostile to the women here now.

A little scared, but mostly I'm furious and utterly horrified.
I honestly did not realise how little women's experiences were valued or understood.
I think one of the wtf moments for me was seeing endless tweets with thousands of likes and RTs on International Women's Day of the 'gentle reminder that not all women have a uterus/vagina' and that 'celebrating it is exclusionary'.
IWD has always focused on issues like fgm, forced marriage, contraceptive rights -- all those things that disproportionately affect people with uteruses and vaginas but now we're not supposed to even mention them?
That was when I realised the trans moment wasn't about trans women being included, it was about shutting down any discussion of womanhood that isn't about them.
No other women's campaign group does this -- none of them give the others 'gentle reminders' that their experience isn't universal or that their own voices should be heard before other women's. It's just the trans activists who do that.
That's why the TERF label is so ridiculous. It's primarily TRAs who are exclusionary. Their focus is on amplifying trans women's voices and excluding women.
It would be hilarious if it weren't so bloody awful.

Sarah
Supermatchgame you realise you have just said to me "it isn't all bad news. Others who use the same label as you but fundamentally disagree don't experience the same clash of identities" Should gender critical feminists find any comfort in that?

No that's not what I said. I said There are many women who accept trans women as women

In response to your claim that They are mutually exclusive.

Transition is often about sex, not gender.

AngryAttackKittens
I'm pretty sure that comfort is the opposite of what Supermatch would like us to feel.

Why do you think that Angry?

AngryAttackKittens
If trans women actually owned their experiences, ie. those of atypical men, then very few feminists would have an issue with that.

I doubt the average transitioned woman with breasts, (surgically constructed) vagina and female hormones circulating would identify as any type of man. Having a gender identity that is comfortable with that is not the gender identity of a man.

Being comfortable with having a male body, penis and testicles and testosterone circulating, but presenting in a dress makes you an 'atypical man'.

As does collecting navel fluff. (A man in Australia has actually done that).

@ToeToToe

I haven't seen or read the Handmaid's Tale yet (oh the shame!) but I believe a key point is how the Aunt Lydias and wealthy wives help support the system. IF women were united the patriarchy could not continue. Which is why so much effort is expended to pit us against each other.

@Jeanhatchet

Feel free to rephrase it in you own words and post it wherever you like. No need to credit me, it's your truth as much as mine. I don't have a blog, social media and a consistent platform makes it too easy to worry too much about what other people are commenting and responding. I generally prefer 'pigeoning' - where you swoop in, dump some shit, and fly off again. That's why I said to tag me, otherwise I'm likely to never look at the page again.

@UpstartCrow

Repost wherever you please :)

@boatyardblues

In some mostly matriarchal cultures like the Minangkabau of Sumatra they encourage the young men in the community to travel and see the world for a year or more at a time. I have a feeling this is a subtle effort to create a sushi train type of situation, with the young men from the neighbouring villages rotating through.

Obviously I'm not saying we SHOULD do that, I'm just saying we could.

And I'm not sure that a 1 man/100 women population bottle neck would be any worse for the gene pool than a 50 men/50 women population bottle neck. Just something else to ponder. It's less about how close people are related and more about the diversity of genes in the population.

Larry sounds like the quintessential Mediocre Man, farting out any opinion that happens to wander through his cavernous skull and assuming that is has value and worth. If you're reading this Larry, there's a little white box near the top of your screen. Try typing 'sex selection human example' or 'other cultures' or 'is marriage universal' or pretty much anything actually. I expect pretty much any website you land on will contain something that's news to you and might help you to contribute to future discussions in a meaningful way.

At first I was hmmmm "yay for a small group getting what they need" but on further thought and investigation... I realised WTF the whole damn job lot of us - women are being thrown under the bus AGAIN! Women have been fighting for equality for centuries and we were not even there yet, now we're back on the downslide again?! So gah. Enough being "nice" we need to do an Iceland! :(

Pratchet, you cracked the code now? (gathers nuts)

May I steal that and do it too?! I also like to make stuff obvious.

Yeah, steal away, with gusto!

lasqrll
thats really good. I will remember that.
Jeanhatchett
Not scared - well maybe a bit. Mostly bloody furious. I do what I can such as letter writing , discussing with folk I can trust, petition signing etc. It helps to channel it.

Compliant Individual Signalling.

I will be using that, every time a woman refers to herself or other women in this way. I like to make stuff obvious.

May I steal that and do it too?! I also like to make stuff obvious.