Hi Mumsnet, if you are asking feminist women to consider whether Mumsnet is for them, please be clear that the space *we* made here is for *all* of us.

Do we actually know if anyone was banned?

That warning is par for the course if there has been repeated posts deleted.

I'm just suspicious that we're being wound up and set off to turn on MNHQ to piss them off. We've had an influx of obvious transphobic trolls attempting to 'prove' we're transphobic for twitter, no reason why more subtle ones won't join or claim to be banned for GC views on twitter to get us riled up.

Just an aside, but AngryAttack in the middle of one of my ex's cluster B moments

Please do not call them this. Call out narcissism, don't sweep up abused, traumatised women, given the BPD label (also cluster B if anyone wonders) and maligned by psychiatry, into the same mental category as those who abused them. It's disgusting that psychiatry does this, no need for feminists to join in. Especially given the history of feminism/women and psychiatry.

...

I'm wondering what threats the TRAs have made to MN, or individuals at MNHQ - pure speculation, but we know how it ges with angry men...

They have already got the word woman. None of the politicians in this country would dare to state 'transwomen are men', but there are plenty ready to spout the 'transwomen are women' (2+2=5) mantra. They are already coming for 'female'. To say a transwoman is male is deemed transphobic, see? twitter.com/mumsnetreport/status/991794604700774401

others have dropped 'trans woman' in favour of 'woman with trans experience'

Surely a 'woman with trans experience' would be a transman, maybe detransitioned?

Chris Rock made an interesting comment about that, I wonder if anyone saved it? Basically, you're entitled to your belief, but to what extend am I required to play along with it?

Of course he's a man so the outrage faded quickly.

I don't really care if men say they are women, or female, or unicorns.
I'm happy to refer to trans people as her or she. I don't even mind if they do have a fetish and like wearing women's clothes and call themselves whatever they like.
Whatever floats your boat.
For me the line is drawn when everyone is required to say that a man is a woman or else and therefore can have access to single sex facilities and all woman opportunities.
No. I can be as polite and considerate as I am required to be but I won't lie and I won't compromise my space ( and more importantly the space of female children) for men. Let men be polite and kind and compromise. It's about time, surely?
I can't actually beleive how spineless MN are being by not sticking by women. Women are your brand ffs!

It's ok everyone.

The Twitter account set up specifically to get Mumsnet shut down is saying that they're not trying to get Mumsnet shut down, so we can all relax.

They just want women to shut up about being erased, as Shon so kindly pointed out we are being. And to just enjoy that erasure, as Shon also suggested we do. They're an interesting one, that Shon.

I mean at the point that women are told to just give men what they want so they'll quiet down and leave us alone - it's basically just telling women to ignore and accept abuse, isn't it? I'm struggling to see how it isn't enabling abuse to suggest we should just shut up and let these male human beings have whatever they want, regardless of impact on us. It isn't just words, it's our connections to each other, our internal thoughts about ourselves, our ability to communicate honestly. Take these away and what is left?

In fact they will escalate.

" Information on Cervical Cancer and Support for Women, Family and Friends Affected by Cervical Cancer. Jo's Trust Cervical Cancer Trust."

"We were set up to save women’s lives by funding ground-breaking research focused on developing effective methods of risk prediction, earlier detection and developing screening for these women-only cancers" The Eve Appeal

*The national ovarian cancer charity working to save lives and help women diagnosed live their lives to the full, wherever they live in the UK." Target Ovarian Cancer

"We’re Ovarian Cancer Action – a UK charity dedicated to beating the sixth most common cancer in women. We want to empower women, to give them a voice, and to create a better future for the thousands of mothers, partners, sisters, daughters and friends affected by this disease."

"Action on Womb Cancer (AWC) is a UK charity dedicated to raising awareness of womb cancer, also known as endometrial or uterine cancer.
Womb cancer is a gynaecological cancer. It is the fourth most common cancer in women, yet very little is known about it. Action on Womb Cancer is changing this."

"We were founded by women with ovarian cancer themselves and are therefore especially sensitive to the needs of women with this devastating diagnosis. We have been supporting women affected by ovarian cancer and their families since 1996." Ovacome

Male human beings are not women, no linguistic modifier can make them women. No amount of polite calling them women can make them women and no amount of giving them women's things can make them women.

The only purpose to us supporting/acquiescing to them being named as women is to try and get them to stop threatening and attacking actual women (with violence, legislation, "I'll hurt myself and people will say it's all your fault", etc).

But they won't stop.

Hear hear.

Forgive me if this has been pointed out already.

All of these are headlines from Mumsnet campaigns, usually front-paging on the site at the moment:

‘PND is a type of depression that affects as many as one in 10 women during the perinatal period’

‘Pregnancy can be an emotional time and it’s not unusual to feel worried about what’s ahead. Research shows that many women experience mental health problems during pregnancy’

‘Today we're launching the next phase in our campaign for Better Postnatal Care, highlighting the impact of birth on women when it comes to things like prolapses, genital and/or anal wounds, and continence.

Figures we're releasing today reveal how many mothers are struggling with physical symptoms associated with prolapses or wounds, painful sex, and problems with continence, months or years after their babies were born.’

These statement are (a) common sense, or (b) deeply transphobic.

Which is it, Mumsnet?

Some people who are particularly vocal have already insisted on the 'female'

& others have dropped 'trans woman' in favour of 'woman with trans experience'
(whoever was interviewed alongside Lucy Masood on R4 Today)

There's no point in making any compromises on the word woman or anything else at this point. They're already saying they are female as well as that they are women. There is no place to retreat to that TRAs won't come after. What they want is validation first and foremost and complete capitulation to that validation.

The only way to get anywhere with this is to have the discussion openly and in public. The reason they hate MN so much is because women outside their bubble are here in huge numbers and when they hear what the TRAs are saying they go WTF? swiftly followed by GTF!

The discussion needs to start at the point of divergence which is "what is the definition of woman / man?" then look at why we have sex segregation and are there areas where we can find a compromise.

It won't make the TRAs happy (and likely won't make me happy) but it is possible. However the TRAs know the majority of people think it's bullshit which is why they insist that any debate starts off with accepting that "transwomen are women".

Well I guess it is something to think about - maybe Mumsnet isn't for me. I like to be able to state facts despite NOT being a scientist.

First they came for 'Woman'.

Trust me when I say they will come for 'Female' next.

TRA's are fundamentally unhappy, feel inadequate, mean, aggressive; they will not be satisfied with owning Woman.

But woman doesn’t = person who wears skirts and has long hair. It means adult human female. You can’t let them change the meaning of the word to suit their intentions. Moreover once you say have woman as it means skirts and long hair they’ll take it and then go back to woman = adult human female, therefore they are female. It’s a one way street to erasure of women as a sex class.

Oh Mumsnet have no duty to provide a space for us to speak out political issues which affect women, or the theory involved in that - which is essentially what FWR is. They have no duty to do this because they are a business. A business which is based on women speaking to each other and because they have all those women in one place speaking to one another, advertisers can target those women. Like I say they are a business with no duty to us. Still once women aren't allowed to meaningfully speak to one another about their biology, about giving birth, about the realities of what that does to your body and your life, when they can't come and define male violence because they can't identify it then they can't get support, when all that happens the women will stop speaking. If the women stop speaking there is no one for the advertisers to advertise to and no business.

So they have no duty to us (beyond perhaps a moral and personal investment in women being allowed to speak because they are women too) no real duty at all. After all Mumsnet IS a business.

Why would any grown woman who considers herself feminist suggest that we "let the boys have woman"

Why not, if woman=person who wears skirts and has long hair.
I wear skirts. I also wear trousers. I don't change from woman to man, depending on what I am wearing because gender is irrelevant to me. But whether I am wearing a skirt or trousers I an always female, I am always XX.

Someone on the mumsnet twitter account is encouraging vocal anti-feminist activists to screenshot women's posts here to slander them as bigots and report all of this by tagging them in on Twitter, a totally different platform to Mumsnet. Those activists reports on twitter are then being acted upon here on Mumsnet with deletions and disciplinary action on the women who are being attacked?

I don't know what on earth we are supposed to make of this. Who published those tweets, were they discussed within mumsnet admin beforehand, has Justine okay'ed them?

Yes Lang. Exactly that.

They won't be satisfied because they can't be.

Because their actual battle is with reality, not with us. Even if MN and all other feminist spaces are swept away, reality will remain.

"Just let the boys have your things, we'll pick you out something else" is sexist bs girls have had to deal with forever. Why would any grown woman who considers herself feminist suggest that we "let the boys have woman" - a fundamentally important word in our struggle for our rights, and in placing us alongside our foremothers in history and our sisters today?

Why should women sacrifice that quietly in an obviously doomed attempt to keep the boys happy?