Hi Mumsnet, if you are asking feminist women to consider whether Mumsnet is for them, please be clear that the space *we* made here is for *all* of us.

Seems a "quiet" account at the mo. My pet spider is busier.

How can Mumsnet not understand social media?

On the Twitter issue, I suppose it's possible that HQ are just in way over their heads and some not very social media savvy person went "I'll respond to this and that'll be it" without having any idea what they were letting themselves (and us) in for.

If so though...I know having no idea how social media works in 2018 is a bit embarrassing, but better to admit it and seek a qualified person to deal with it than send half your userbase into a panic and the other half into a rage.

I'm curious what the legal framework is that MN is operating within - how unduly influenced has it been by policy by stealth? For example we've seen the press adopt editing policies by stealth that moderate the published language to enable self ID as the "norm". To argue against that is now deemed as hate speech, as the "norm". So all submitted articles have to pass that smell test where language is moderated before publication or they won't get out there. In addition deplatforming is also performed by stealth by not allowing comments on those articles. Twitter operates a similar policy - so the game and rules have already been rigged pretty much.

Similarly HR policies where it's "hate speech" to object in the workplace to having to use proscribed labels for self ID'd people that means I am lying when I use them. Like Maria MacLachlan found.

So any corporate lawyers around??

Not having much success are they?

Why do you think it is ok to contribute to the damaging stereotype of traumatised women?

Sorry, end of post went weird. This is actually really upsetting, I keep meanign to post about the way women labelled mentally ill are marginalised by feminism (or feminists, really) but it's difficult when you're living this stuff, and trying to keep living.

We've been through this before, on this very site, MissMoney, and I told you no then too. I will express myself as I wish in regards to my very unpleasant former boyfriend.

"Our team". not at all a sad bunch of internet misogynists who want to silence women who understand basic facts

Woman I thought it's long been known that male psychiatrists gave the misdiagnosis of BPD to traumatised women in the past, rather than complex trauma or CPTSD - hasn't that changed at all? It is disgusting if it hasn't. Because that's the problem, not the use of Cluster B label for hostile men.

C-PTSD is still not listed as a diagnosis in either the ICD or DSM. It's not an offial diagnosis, although some clinicians use it. With the UK/NHS, the ethos is very much still diagnosing BPD (or it's other name, EUPD) but supposedly not stigmatising it, recognising trauma, blah blah. In a severely underfunded service than only has the resources to firefight, that doesn't pan out brilliantly. It's the same old attitudes, covered with a veneer of platitudes. (Bit of poetry for you there )

Women on the autism spectrum also often get misdiagnosed as BPD. That's what happened to me. I've had contact with so many women given this label, and only one was anything like the cariacature. Most were lovely people, so hurt by life but always ready to help others, yet demonised and marginalised. Quite a few of us found feminism this way. So IMO either many, many women are misdiagnosed, or BPD is conceptualised all wrong. Either way, lumping them in with narcissists and referring to "cluster B's" is horrendous. Cluster B is the "dramatic" type PD cluster. Because of course, women in pain, expecially women in pain who don't want to shut up and go away, are just dramatic, eh?

Angry I think most women here know how the BPD diagnosis intersects with feminist issues, and if not and that's something you'd like to discuss further you surely figure out a way to do so without attempting to control other women's language.

Oh yes, much better if you control my language, us pesky mental women shouldn't bother about you throwing us under the bus. If you know the history, how dare you continue to marginalise vulnerable women by lumping them in with their abusers? Perhaps if yours had stood there smiling and agreeing with the psychaitrists whilst they take away your voice, your humanity, you'd understand.

AngryAttack It's not ok to throw a vulnerable group of women under the bus

I'd still hope it's a tactic from HQ, which results in :" show us what you have - it's not a lot, is it? Go away."

Would still like reassurance though.

"Someone on the mumsnet twitter account is encouraging vocal anti-feminist activists"

Huh? I have missed this - do you have a link or ss?

Someone has set up a twitter account to "monitor" mumsnet for what they decide is "transphobia". They are encouraging other people to screenshot mumsnet and tweet out those screenshots for them. Mumsnet's twitter account, rather than standing up for their members and their website, or even encouraging the self elected "monitors" to join the conversation here (and report here if need be..), has encouraged their behaviour on twitter by thanking them and doing deletions and diciplinary actions back here on Mumsnet.

And that’s me done, MN Towers. I’m off after 7 years. I cannot believe you are actually suggesting women speaking the truth, when truth is very much needed in the Orwellian world we have slumber-stumbled into, may not be right for Mumsnet. When did it become Net-huns?

Have you seen this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3238536-Mumsnet-encouraging-brigading-by-Twitter-TRAs?pg=7

Apparently the whole Twitter thing wasn't how it seems at all and we're all just misunderstanding and....

I'm not buying it. I think someone decided to throw the TRAs a bone in the form of allowing them to have a few commenters to chew on.

I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with MNHQ in all of this.

I think someone high up in Mumsnet must be on board with the TRA agenda, whether for reasons of expediency or ideology. I don't think it's just the interns.

Well yeah, I mean those two have probably blocked themselves by accident a few times.

It's almost like there's a connection between being a TRA and sexism. Almost as if there might be a connection to another movement with an awfully similar acronym...

Either that or started passing out the gin at lunchtime.

AAK - interesting what you say about Chris Rock and outrage fading.

The 'banned' or suspended accounts, as far as I see are women only. I've retweeted and initiated responses for months ( male here) with no enforcement of a banning policy. fwiw my twitter thing is @CoyleRobert - which directly outs me but that's okay. I don't mind my dots joining up at all, over such a cause. I did spend teenage years fighting the NF ( on occasion literally) so this is similar..but different.

Just about all of the 'likes' and the like have been female and specifically radfems. But what me and my mate Chris say has no attraction to the banners. It's just the women that get done.

Been blocked by Owen Jones and Lilly Madigan, obvs.

I fear that Justine's article was pure lip service - I feared that all along. For all the rhetoric about not being bullied and standing firm - we suddenly seem to be in the middle of a total purge of opinions that are nothing new - we've always called a spade a spade and something with a willy a man.

The moderating on here as a whole lately has got incredibly inconsistent depending on who's on duty, what day of the week it is and what biscuits were in the biscuit tin at the office. It's not been just in here - but the Alfie Evans threads were very inconsistently done at times as well and there's been some "wtf" stuff across the less emotionally charged parts of the site.

Maybe they've just hired some more rogue interns...

I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with MNHQ in all of this. Where is Justine? Nothing has been heard from her in a while, and a lot of recent mod decisions seem at odds with her public statements. It's hard to tell if what we're seeing is panicked flailing, some sort of strategy we haven't been informed of, or the beginning of a process of sweeping the site of troublesome commenters via tightened moderation.

given the BPD label (also cluster B if anyone wonders) and maligned by psychiatry, into the same mental category as those who abused them

I thought it's long been known that male psychiatrists gave the misdiagnosis of BPD to traumatised women in the past, rather than complex trauma or CPTSD - hasn't that changed at all? It is disgusting if it hasn't. Because that's the problem, not the use of Cluster B label for hostile men. Not trying to be provocative just teasing out the issue.

I'll think about your feedback as I use Cluster B often to describe hostile men, as do many (I reference Sandra L Brown and her work with Cluster Bs). And whilst the numbers are not comparable by any stretch of the imagination, she contends that the correctly diagnosed BPD women (i.e. hostile) were as bad as their male peers.

"Someone on the mumsnet twitter account is encouraging vocal anti-feminist activists"

Huh? I have missed this - do you have a link or ss?

Today it's 'transphobia,' tomorrow it could be anything.

It's really short sighted to let a small group of activists dictate Mumsnet's content.

People on this thread say someone was permabanned but I don't know who.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3238536-Mumsnet-encouraging-brigading-by-Twitter-TRAs?watched=1&msgid=77582974#77582974

MissMoney, with respect, consider that another woman's recounting of her confrontation with a controlling, potentially dangerous man may not be the appropriate moment into which to insert your educational comments about psychiatry. I think most women here know how the BPD diagnosis intersects with feminist issues, and if not and that's something you'd like to discuss further you surely figure out a way to do so without attempting to control other women's language.

I use Cluster B as a grouping because it also contains ASPD, which was in fact my ex's primary diagnosis, and there's quite a bit of overlap with NPD.