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Original poster

Hi Mumsnet, if you are asking feminist women to consider whether Mumsnet is for them, please be clear that the space *we* made here is for *all* of us.

338 replies

leyat · 02/05/2018 23:41

So apparently MNHQ is asking women they are suspending for saying things like men are men, to consider whether Mumsnet is for them.

I feel it's important to be clear that we want feminist women to have a home here, we - all the women who engage here - have made this board what it is (I'm relatively new so I am in awe of the women who have been shaping this wonderful space all this time) and we don't want women excluded from this space because they won't lie about biology and acquiesce to misogyny and genderism.

This is meant to be a kind of refuge for us, where we do not have to submit to male authority, where we can let off steam and share without needing to worry about dealing with misogyny, and where we can feel a degree of safety and find sisterhood. I can't think of anything more awful than a woman who comes here to share in this, in this one space we have that's meant to be ours, to then be told she should consider excluding herself because she won't bow to male authority on what a woman is.

So it needs saying, Mumsnet, this is a board for all feminist women, we don't want anyone excluded or made to feel that this space isn't for them too. And please understand many women come here from backgrounds of abuse, we do live in a climate of male violence and misogyny that is currently getting worse, so I hope MNHQ take time to ask themselves how they want to treat women who come here. Mumsnet own the site, but it's the women who use this space who made it the vibrant refuge of sisterhood and resistance that it is, so please don't shit on that or indeed on the women who actually engage on your forum.

OP posts:
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RosenbergW · 03/05/2018 13:14

MMP - I disagree that AAK was lumping in people in the way that you think she was. I'd like to point out to you please that AAK was herself discussing her experience of abuse by a man, and I am trying to explain to you that like you I also have struggled under sexist misdiagnosis by a man working in a male dominated profession. This isn't a simple situation to navigate but I do wholeheartedly believe that AAK was in no way referring to women misdiagnosed as BPD when she referred to abusive men with Cluster B disorders. I think you are reading something there which is not there and while I do empathise with you I would still ask you not to shut down women talking about their experiences of abuse in the name of standing up for women like me (us). We are not of the same mind in this.

ReanimatedMuse · 03/05/2018 13:13

I've been here in one incarnation or another for 10+ years. Many of the women who make this board what it is have been here even longer and their presence permeates across the boards: they provided robust relationship advice, weigh in on complex legal issues, give their detailed thoughts on BF and weaning. They are sharp and witty, making me laugh in AIBU and provide cheer and company in chat. They help navigate skincare choices and support us through difficult decisions relating education and hold hands through traumatic ones relating to healthcare. They recommend fabulous films and detail daring recipes and have an opinion on everything.

We are more than the sum of our parts.

Of course if we leave we'll be replaced but MN absolutely will be a worse place for it.

OnTheList · 03/05/2018 13:09

twitter.com/justwoodall/status/991803265804365824

LOL. Maybe MNHQ should talk to stonewall.

Sorry I am swinging between finding this all amusing and infuriating. HQ seem to be capitulating to narcissistic male people who find the idea of female people discussing female issues transphobic. This will not stop with FWR, no way. Pregnancy campaigns and such would be next, as 'men can get pregnant too' and so on. I do wonder why the focus is not on the many many places on the web that actually do spout vile transphobia regularly. But no, lets stalk mumsnet, as its a female dominated space. Who cares about male people being transphobic AND ACTUALLY ATTACKING TRANSPEOPLE. Even when men do attack transpeople, its the fault of 'TERFs' for fucks sake..

PermissionToSpeakSir · 03/05/2018 13:08

I haven't rtft

Mumsnet is a community which has a strong culture and although FWR is just a supposedly tiny part of it, it is an active, significant part.

Previously MRAs took exception to the relationships board, as well as FWR and apparently the Special Needs board was subjected to horrendous trolling as has since gone pretty quiet- FWR is similarly in danger now.

It is a fair point to remember that clever opinionated women largely define the culture of MN and a disproportionate number of clever opinionated women also call themselves feminist. So FWR is important in contributing to this site's distinct character.

Every one of us who have not put on an ad blocker are in some way 'paying' to use MN and every one of us who posts is generating content and traffic to MN for free.

The relationship between MN and us users is symbiotic.

If Mumsnet loses its opinionated feminists, it loses its character and that is a huge loss for everyone- contributors, lurkers, advertisers alike.

OvaHere · 03/05/2018 13:08

Sadly there is no bargaining power here really

Well there is some, at the moment for the most part we stay contained in FWR. If FWR goes the discussion won't go away, it will move to more mainstream parts of the board.

Of course MN can delete any feminist threads started but eventually it will sink in with the majority of users that any attempts to discuss women's rights or women's biology on a majority female site is being silenced.

That won't go over well and there will be journalists that are interested in the story angle.

MissMoneyPlant · 03/05/2018 13:04

There are so many women out there struggling with the legacy of abuse from men, and you all can just turn your backs and label them mental. Well done.

RaininSummer · 03/05/2018 13:03

Well said OP. Please don't leave the site entirely - I understand why people may want to but at least lurk as, at present at least, it is an important place for women to talk. If it comes to it we can regroup somewhere else (Reddit??) but I can't believe that Mumsnet will cave to these ridiculous demands from those who are scared of free speech.

MissMoneyPlant · 03/05/2018 13:02

But I was abused too, and my abuser was assisted by psychiatry to gaslight me. Why can't I speak up about my abuse?

You seem to be missing the point. AAK was lumping in those labelled BPD with those narcissists including her abuser. That is not ok. She is rightly calling out narcissists behaviour, but instead of saying narcissist, she used a term that encompasses their victims too. Can't you see that's not ok?

UnderTheDesk · 03/05/2018 13:01

Oh. That's a weird post sequence.

Ardant · 03/05/2018 13:01

@Notthatwomanagain I'm not sure, the feminist boards were apparently worth Justine defending them in The Times a few weeks back. Who knows though.

UnderTheDesk · 03/05/2018 13:00

Just wondering...if MN are bowing to TRA pressure because TRAs are threatening to boycott advertisers...well. We are the target market, and there's probably more of us than there is of them, right?

Is a counter-boycott a thing? Wink

Notthatwomanagain · 03/05/2018 12:59

Mums net is HUGE
If a few hundred feminists leave it wouldn’t even be a ripple
Sadly there is no bargaining power here really

womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/05/2018 12:53

AAK is doing nothing wrong at all in referring to 'Cluster B' disorders. That many women have been misdiagnosed by a sexist institution does not mean that a disorder itself does not exist, or that people who have been abused by other people with these disorders shouldn't name it :/

This is a diversion from the thread so I'll stop but I wanted to say that I don't agree with MissMoneyPlant on this issue, and it worries me that someone is speaking on behalf of all of us in this boat to silence another woman speaking about abuse. I think MMP you need to take a step back tbh.

This

therealposieparker · 03/05/2018 12:50

Any submission to bullies will see the end of free speech on Mumsnet.

Imagine being more afraid of bullies than serving your core user group.

RosenbergW · 03/05/2018 12:49

I was misdiagnosed as BPD and had to drag myself through a ton of NHS process to eventually get a diagnosis that did fit and the treatment that helps me manage that. I know what it's like to be given a convenient (and sexist) diagnosis as a way of sweeping aside the traumas I have experienced and the symptoms I am dealing with.

AAK is doing nothing wrong at all in referring to 'Cluster B' disorders. That many women have been misdiagnosed by a sexist institution does not mean that a disorder itself does not exist, or that people who have been abused by other people with these disorders shouldn't name it :/

This is a diversion from the thread so I'll stop but I wanted to say that I don't agree with MissMoneyPlant on this issue, and it worries me that someone is speaking on behalf of all of us in this boat to silence another woman speaking about abuse. I think MMP you need to take a step back tbh.

Original poster
leyat · 03/05/2018 12:37

@transpeaked please don't go :(

OP posts:
Rufustheyawningreindeer · 03/05/2018 12:36

All of mrpans post

I'd still hope it's a tactic from HQ, which results in :" show us what you have - it's not a lot, is it? Go away."...Would still like reassurance though

Yep, yep, yep

MissMoneyPlant · 03/05/2018 12:31

No, it's not projection. You are lumping in traumatised women with their abusers, calling them "cluster B's". That is not ok. That is what I am objecting to. Yes, my own experience makes that very painful, but it doesn't invalidate my point.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/05/2018 12:30

OK, everyone, I'm out of this thread. Best of luck, etc.

doctorcuntybollocks · 03/05/2018 12:30

I usually favour cock-up over conspiracy, but in this case I'm going with active malice. It is inconceivable that they don't understand social media.

MissMoneyPlant · 03/05/2018 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/05/2018 12:28

And this is why I'm not engaging with you about this, MissMoney. That is 100% pure projection and not in any way what I said.

Stop.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/05/2018 12:27

How can Mumsnet not understand social media?

That's why it's embarrassing! But it's either that or active malice, because nobody who does understand social media could have possibly thought that engaging with that account and indicating that you welcomed further submissions wouldn't go exactly the way it has gone.

MissMoneyPlant · 03/05/2018 12:26

Having read some horrific stuff about women diagnosed with BPD written by misogynists, its weird and frightening to have a fellow feminist agree with the cruel sterotypes. Like the moment you realise a feminist friend has become a transactivist.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/05/2018 12:25

Again, we've had literally this exact conversation before, Miss Money, and I'm not up for Groundhog Day. I will not be engaging any further.